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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#831

Post by toast0 »

pvelagal wrote: post #520
ajmurmann wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the work that Musk has done. Everyone has to play by the same rules though. We cannot bend the law because someone has otherwise done amazing work.

So how many financial execs got punished for creating the 2008 financial crisis, the worst in our lifetimes (hopefully) , which brought the world to the brink ? https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/finance/309544-why-ha...

Most of the root of the financial crisis was things that weren't illegal.

Poor lending standards and verification practices.

Financial institutions buying and selling complicated derivatives they should have understood but didn't.

Relying on ratings agencies to do a good job, when they didn't.

Relying on insurance that wasn't appropriately priced or capitalized to cover the risk.

There was some outright fraud in loan applications and foreclosures, which was prosecuted when there was sufficient evidence.

All of these stupid decisions and the resulting easy money distorted the housing market, and the results when it fell apart were painful, but bank execs don't have a legal duty to not engage in stupid endaevors or maintain the stability of our markets. On the other hand, officers of a public company do have a legal duty not to knowingly distribute misleading information about their company in order to manipulate the stock price.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#832

Post by badloginagain »

michaelt wrote: post #756
JoshCole wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The narrative shifts constantly because the narrative is anti-Tesla. So it has to shift, whenever they make it past another hurdle. It started with them being ridiculous for even trying to make an electric car. Then it became that they couldn't mass produce. Now they are being mass produced. It sometimes shifts towards their safety, but it isn't a preferred avenue of attack because the stats show that the cars are sa…

The narrative shifts constantly because the narrative is anti-Tesla. So it has to shift, whenever they make it past another hurdle. Or from another perspective, the narrative shifts constantly because the delivery date for my $35,000 car keeps shifting :)

Pay another $1000 for priority queueing!

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#833

Post by _drimzy »

zekevermillion wrote: post #509
rohit2412 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price manipulation hurts short sellers by causing "short burn of the century"

Yeah, and I believe some of the shorts may have cause to sue (or have already?) directly. But I tend to think the SEC's focus as to damages is not going to be that Elon screwed the shorts. It's going to be that some people bought shares of Tesla at too high a price. I could be wrong, maybe this is more of a general "integrity of markets" kind of thing, and the SEC doesn't care about direct harm at all, they just want…

Yeah I would be surprised if SEC treats short-sellers as different from investors. The general tone you are maintaining is short sellers are some sort of abominable gamblers who thrive on failures of other investors. Uh, no. A short seller is just another investor investing using the tools the market provides.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#834

Post by [deleted] »

techstrategist wrote: post #722
uxcolumbo wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference with him is he is trying to move humanity forward and truly improve things and helping to secure our long term survival. Those short sellers don't care about any of that, they only care about making money and it's understandable that Musk is trying to find ways to ruin their game. Musk should have run this type of tweet by his close business friends / counsel. I hope he will only get a slap on the wris…

Musk is trying to make money, and he says that he is trying to move humanity forward to secure our long term survival. This may very well be true. However, similar statements are often made by people committing scams in order to give investors and the public an excuse to ignore serious signs of fraud. Anyone who gives him a free pass because of his claims of saving humanity is potentially making an enormous mistake.…

[deleted]

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#835

Post by albedoa »

Mirioron wrote: post #776
jacquesm wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you re-read the headline. Elon is fantastic in some ways and terrible in others. He really needs to - quickly - get some self control or it will end badly. What do you think are the chances of Gwynne Shotwell tweeting SpaceX into the gutter or wrecking its reputation by getting into a tiff with a guy trying to rescue a bunch of kids?

>What do you think are the chances of Gwynne Shotwell tweeting SpaceX into the gutter or wrecking its reputation by getting into a tiff with a guy trying to rescue a bunch of kids? Low, but we also know that the chances of her starting a company like SpaceX wouldn't have been nearly as high either since she didn't.

We absolutely don't know that, especially for that reason. What?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#836

Post by resu_nimda »

ubernostrum wrote: post #737
resu_nimda wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is baffling to me is the length that some HN commenters will go to to tear down people like Elon and Steve Jobs. Maybe you don't like him, maybe you don't like how much attention and praise he gets. But to be so dismissive of what those companies have accomplished with him at the helm, to me is just unwarranted bitter negativity. In your mind, what companies are doing staggering heart-breaking Copernican-revolut…

the length that some HN commenters will go to to tear down people like Elon I suppose if you read literally anything other than absolutely fawning worship of Elon Musk as history's most titanic genius as a "tear down", I could see that. But... it is absolutely true that his business model is incremental improvements + economies of scale. Tesla and SpaceX aren't in the business of inventing fundamentally new things. T…

We're clearly talking past each other and we may have to agree to disagree. You didn't address my question at all, just restated your comment and implied that I'm a fanboy if I disagree.

"Absolutely fawning worship" is unnecessary hyperbole, there is a vast amount of middle ground between that and your position. But I suppose if you can't make a reasoned argument, you have to resort to that (and we're off to the ad hominem races!).

"Most titanic genius" is more telling hyperbole, reiterated from your first post apropos of nothing. I didn't say anything about him or his genius, but you continue to mock and, yes, tear down.

When you say "Tesla is just [this]. SpaceX is just [that]," that's a tear down. You're reducing and diminishing companies that have undoubtedly made real impact, but why? Forget about Elon the Magnificent for a second, I would guess that you have similar things to say about Google, Apple, and the rest.

So I ask again, what company is doing things worthy of your respect? You're very good at reducing big things to nothing, but can you prop anything up? Can you support something? Maybe you're afraid to, because you know I can reduce and diminish it. That's easy, anyone can do it. But there's nothing interesting about it, there's no value, all it does is reveal insecurity.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#837

Post by ouid »

djsumdog wrote: post #68
chollida1 wrote: post #6

This comment I made a few weeks ago is coming alot closer to the truth than I would have expected. I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016250#18016292 SpaceX is doing well, Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company. All Elon had to do was keep his head down and n…

I'd hope the company itself would be fine. I really hate this idea of the grand visionary. A good friend of mine who is a mechanical engineer despises Musk. I listened to a bit of his Joe Regan interview and when Regan asked him how he has the time to do all of the things he does, there are smoke jokes about him being an alien, but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the tho…

>Are Apple products different now that Jobs are gone?

Air pods.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#838

Post by hef19898 »

DennisP wrote: post #829
hef19898 wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one point made in the article I mentioned above was that thermal stress limits the life time of a reusable rocket. Plus the lost payload as you need fuel to land the rocket again. Also, and at least that part I can confirm, a missile is tube is not a lot more than a aluminium tube. So, there is my home work for the weekend: rocket science and LEO launch economics!

There's also the rocket engine, which is a lot more than a tube. Disposables throw that away too. You can just look at the cost of the rocket to see how much expensive stuff is getting thrown away. SpaceX does still use the Falcon 9 as a disposable for extra-heavy payloads. That doesn't mean you have to throw your rocket away for all payloads, and the capacity difference isn't dramatic. And there won't be that many p…

We agree on the hardware cost side. The missing step now is to compare these saved hardware costs against the lost payload and the revenue value of that payload. Averages will be fine I think.

Just looking at the hardware side without opportunity cost aonewhat misses the point. A really thorough cost analysis would need to factor in the impact on reliability, the risk of failed launches due to reused rocket stages. I assume these numbers are impossible to come by.

One other data point would be, if that's the case, how much premium SpaceX is asking for the use of virgin rockets as compared to reused ones. This would allow a rough estimation of the increase risk for failure and other costs. Again, I don't expect these numbers to be available.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#839

Post by dnautics »

chollida1 wrote: post #6

This comment I made a few weeks ago is coming alot closer to the truth than I would have expected. I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016250#18016292 SpaceX is doing well, Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company. All Elon had to do was keep his head down and n…

I think it's quite interesting that the SEC is obviously in the right, but it brings to question whether or not broadly, the SEC serves the public good.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#840

Post by stanmancan »

jm547ster wrote: post #140
stanmancan wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only difference is, Gates and Jobs both left when their respective companies were already in a good place and very financially successful.

Definitely not Jobs’ first departure

True, and his first departure almost killed Apple.
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