There should be more options, like Republic of Ireland joining the United Kingdom. Or Scotland making a bid to join the EU.
They'd have to join the Euro as well. I think that's pre-condition for joining the EU.
How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
51–60 of 142 posts
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#52Brexit has definitely changed my mind on one thing - majority vote in a referendum is bad. Or rather, the percentage vote required should be proportional to the gravity of the question. Referendums are rare, so most votes should require well over 50%. I did not used to think this. In 2007 British Columbia had a referendum on switching to proportional representation from FPTP. The result was like 52% in favour, but th…
The problem with Brexit is that "leave the European Union" is not a policy, it's an outcome. All of the thinking about how to do it should have taken place before the vote, and then we could have voted on that (this is actually the way legislation is typically developed in the UK, and the job of our sometime venerated civil service). Compare it to the recent Irish referendum on abortion, where there was a clear plan for what would actually happen following a vote for change.
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#53This idea of "alignment" is absurd, countries have non-transitive border arrangements all the time. It might bring the always-questionable idea that the EU ever had a "single market" under scrutiny, but that's weird ideological posturing not a serious obstruction to Irish access to the UK market and vice versa.
IIUC, the EU does not allow that (no separate trade treaties fur individual EU members).
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The Leave voters will all call you undemocratic. That sentiment imposes a definite cost on you as well. This is the same country that has the queen give "consent" for all legislation, correct? What exactly is the point of the monarchy if they won't step in during this serious issue to act as the "adult in the room"?
I guess I'm not familiar enough with the monarchical aspect of their government to know how (if?) that would go down? But you make a good point. Why can't their queen or whatever just say no we're not leaving? I'm not sure? I'm from the US. We don't have the whole monarchy thing going on.
Because the position (and power) is symbolic and the centuries old understanding is that the ruling monarch will never exercise it. Should they do so, especially in opposition to a full referendum of all things, it would spell the end of the monarchy.
The last time royal assent was refused in the UK was in 1708:
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#55Brexit has definitely changed my mind on one thing - majority vote in a referendum is bad. Or rather, the percentage vote required should be proportional to the gravity of the question. Referendums are rare, so most votes should require well over 50%. I did not used to think this. In 2007 British Columbia had a referendum on switching to proportional representation from FPTP. The result was like 52% in favour, but th…
The same 51% will just vote for a populist candidate to push their agenda. You can’t escape it by playing games with required thresholds. Brexit happened because people wanted it to happen.
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#56Scotland and NI quit UK to form their own republic and rejoin EU together. Everyone happy. Maybe even republic of Scotland-Ireland.
The Gaelic/Celtic Union is an idea that has been batted around for a while now. It might be political fantasy, but the populaces seem to be general amenable (not including, ironically, the various "unionists").
Honestly, the Brexit that would probably keep the most people happy is if England and Wales minus London left the UK, and the remainder of the UK plus London stayed in the EU. Scotland would have to become a special economic zone though.
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#57Scotland and NI quit UK to form their own republic and rejoin EU together. Everyone happy. Maybe even republic of Scotland-Ireland.
The Gaelic/Celtic Union is an idea that has been batted around for a while now. It might be political fantasy, but the populaces seem to be general amenable (not including, ironically, the various "unionists").
It becomes even more ironic when you recall that the (largely Unionist) Ulster Scots in NI are well... Scots...
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm surprised you use the term "constitutional crisis" here. Isn't the UK one of those rare countries without a constitution?
The UK does have a constitution. It's just not all written down (lots of things work on 'convention'), and the bits that are written down aren't all written down in one document.
Ah ok, that's definitely an important distinction.
Practical question: how does one determine whether an action is unconstitutional? How does one refer to "case history" (or whatever) if it's not written down?
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#59This is actually terrible, for one thing the bridges don't move independently, you click one and another moves, making it FEEL deceptive and not allowing you to easily work out the whole problem space or why. They should move independently and if the configuration doesn't make sense, tell you.
For another thing, it conflates economic disalignment with having a hard border, the whole argument of the UK government is that you don't have to do that.
It therefore makes no comment on the Checquers plan which even if you don't like it, is just deceptive. Checquers plan would be equivalent to a different kind of checkbetween NI and Ireland, not a hard border but the idea being (I think) that we check good on the way in for whether they're intended for consumption or export to the EU, if they're passing through to the EU we apply our own tariffs. On the EU side I think we don't put tariffs, then we don't have to do any checks on the way in or out on that border because the EU tariffs have been applied on the way in.
Whether you think that's feasible, mixing up hard borders with economic alignment and completely ignoring the nuance of hard border vs tech border and the government's current proposal is gross.
Re: How to Brexit? – Explore the (im)possibilities of the different Brexit scenarios
#60There should be more options, like Republic of Ireland joining the United Kingdom. Or Scotland making a bid to join the EU.
> Republic of Ireland joining the United Kingdom Sure, but this is somewhere in probability behind "UK destroyed by asteroid impact". > Scotland making a bid to join the EU There are persistent rumours that people on the UK side are trying to avoid having any kind of double-no-border situation that would work for NI be also applicable for Scotland. Because during the referendum all sorts of claims about the need for…
>> Republic of Ireland joining the United Kingdom
> Sure, but this is somewhere in probability behind "UK destroyed by asteroid impact".
Maybe, but Ireland also leaving the EU would be a good and not entirely unpopular solution.