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Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

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31–36 of 36 posts

Re: Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

#31
We've had econophysics for quite a while. It has yet to provide substantial insights.

The issue is twofold. As others have remarked, human beings react to each other and the intervention you do strategically. Econophysics models often use things like particle behavior based on probabilistic choice rules to predict behavior. This may describe a situation if fitted, but it also tends to break down with interaction and intervention. Furthermore, we know that in such interdependent situations, it can be highly misleading and wrong to use aggregate functions and non-behavioral approaches. For example, if networks of externalities influence choices. In many areas, such as auction behavior or anonymous trade, the game-theory based models fit empirical behavior extremely well. In other situations, it seems we start to understand better why people react differently. Econophysics feels like a step back to old style economics. I believe the current research agenda, ie. giving people strategic agency and trying to understand their bounds to understanding and rationality, seems to be more useful to me.

Secondly, econophysics claim to fame is also party based on mathematical tools. I think this is misguided. While the math is different, and new tools are always useful, the economic models are actually based on quite deep foundations. Those reaction curves you learn in Game-Theory 101 seem simple, but that is more a matter of representation. They can also be derived in much more general mathematical spaces. For example, instead of simply finding optimal functions in continous spaces, the same can be done in lattices based purely on orderings... Economic theory has always been dominated by pure mathematicians.

and for sociology - I mean seriously. Some of the biggest names in formal sociological theory are physicians, such as White.

In my research I have personally found that physics style models, which are not based on strategic behavior, can be highly misleading as they allow, for example, for aggregation and inference that would not actually correspond to strategic agents making individual interdependent decisions.

Re: Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

#32
post #5

It’s cool to have some mathematical rules of thumb to describe crowds and so on if it is backed up by experimental data. I did an economics undergrad. One thing that really frustrated me about the whole subject was how they kept calling it a social “science” and yet there was no experiment or predictions. Everything was a retroactive explanation for something, e.g. the financial crash or the affect of a minimum wage.…

> until they start making predictions

1. Economists make predictions.

2. Geologists don't run experiments with n earths and randomized double-blind trials. Do you think they're not scientists either?

Re: Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

#33
post #30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I have first class degree in economics to be fair. I got the highest score across the university. I didn't just take one class and make my mind up. But I agree that doesn't make me an expert in the field. I also agree behavioral economics is a better direction. However, I'm just saying many strands of it need to use evidence more. A lot of models were kinda cute but also pretty silly. Game theory is a bit of a…

What sort of university did you go to where they don't do econometrics or macroeconomics, or international trade, or... all things where you can not open a textbook without being confronted with real life data? The large majority of articles in top journals feature both mathematical theory and statistical&causal inference on real data.

The number one ranked one in the world for economics, actually.

Re: Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

#34
post #32
post #5

It’s cool to have some mathematical rules of thumb to describe crowds and so on if it is backed up by experimental data. I did an economics undergrad. One thing that really frustrated me about the whole subject was how they kept calling it a social “science” and yet there was no experiment or predictions. Everything was a retroactive explanation for something, e.g. the financial crash or the affect of a minimum wage.…

> until they start making predictions 1. Economists make predictions. 2. Geologists don't run experiments with n earths and randomized double-blind trials. Do you think they're not scientists either?

> 2. Geologists don't run experiments with n earths and randomized double-blind trials. Do you think they're not scientists either?

Although they can't travel back in time to do controlled experiments, computer simulations are pretty routine for the study of the deep time of the earth, for example, the neoproterozoic "snowball earth" simulations [1].

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/W_Peltier/publication/1...

Re: Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

#35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> until they start making predictions 1. Economists make predictions. 2. Geologists don't run experiments with n earths and randomized double-blind trials. Do you think they're not scientists either?

> 2. Geologists don't run experiments with n earths and randomized double-blind trials. Do you think they're not scientists either? Although they can't travel back in time to do controlled experiments , computer simulations are pretty routine for the study of the deep time of the earth, for example, the neoproterozoic "snowball earth" simulations [1]. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/W_Peltier/publication/1..…

Computer simulations are a good tool for economists as well. That was my research focus in grad school.

Re: Sociophysics and Econophysics, the Future of Social Science?

#36
Mostly, this is a failed research program and not at all the direction the social sciences are going. Economists at least will draw one lesson from physics and respond to econophysics, by following the "shut-up and calculate approach" - the result, econophysics will be ignored.
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