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Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

bbc.com

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Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#81

Post by orasis »

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

I’m just commenting on the “bad people” part, but at 40 years old I’ve seen enough people remain completely stuck in their dysfunctional patterns to have very little faith in rehabilitation.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#82

Post by stanleydrew »

andrepd wrote: post #41
Shivetya wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society. then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why?…

>many with criminal convictions are bad people So are many people without criminal convictions. What's your point? I for one think that, say, the Walton heirs or similar rent-extracting landlord heirs are more of a drain on society than poverty-stricken kids selling drugs or making other bad life choices. Life isn't black and white, and further to the point data shows that rehabilitating criminals delivers better out…

This is true, but I think it's understandable that many employers will see a criminal conviction as a signal and make decisions accordingly.

Is it a lazy approach to hiring? Yes. So is hiring anyone with an MIT degree just because of their credential.

If the signal is imperfect and there are efficient ways to reveal whether the signal is valid or not then some market participant would likely figure out how to exploit that right?

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#83

Post by KingMob »

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #33
Nasrudith wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't asking just if one has been arrested in an interview for nonlaw enforcement positions technically an illegal question without qualifiers to specifically exclude the ones that didn't result in conviction or admission of guilt? Arrest doesn't imply conviction or even the low bar for indictment. For instance SWAT protocol is to cuff literally everybody else possible on the scene for one and then assess and release…

No that's false. Every single job I've ever applied to has asked about a criminal record. There is, however, a "ban the box" movement in a plurality of states, banning employers from asking potential employees about a criminal record. With the internet documenting all public information, however, it's normally trivial for an employer to do a little research and find the employee's record.

There's a distinction between asking about an arrest and asking about a conviction.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#84

Post by mitjak »

frockington wrote: post #72
drpgq wrote: post #11

I wonder what will happen in Canada once October 17th, the legalization date comes.

I'm hoping more Canadians become stoners and push wages up for people with clean urine

how exactly would having more stoners up the wages?

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#85

Post by CodeCube »

orasis wrote: post #81
mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

I’m just commenting on the “bad people” part, but at 40 years old I’ve seen enough people remain completely stuck in their dysfunctional patterns to have very little faith in rehabilitation.

But then ... we don't really do a great job at even attempting to rehabilitate anyone. When we stick a non-violent offender in a prison, it's "Not A Good Time™️" for them. They become institutionalized, they make criminal connections, they join gangs ... they do these things in order to survive; for protection not only from other violent inmates, but also from abuse by corrections officers.

Let's not lose faith in rehabilitation before we've actually tried rehabilitation.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#86

Post by ppeetteerr »

Shivetya wrote: post #31
mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society. then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why?…

Many without convictions are bad people too.

Having a record for MJ possession and sale is not the same as having a record for murder or even domestic abuse.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#87

Post by TacticalTable »

frockington wrote: post #71
DanBC wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a still developing pre-frontal cortex means young people (under 25) fucking suck at making decisions.

I would disagree with that. Being young does not inherently mean you make bad decisions. Some people make dumb decisions in their youth but no need to discriminate against a population based on age. Many people enlist in the military, start companies and/or start families before 25.

> Many people enlist in the military, start companies and/or start families before 25.

You're acting like any of these are inherently good decisions. They're not good or bad. They're just big and potentially very regrettable.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#88

Post by njharman »

orasis wrote: post #81
mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

I’m just commenting on the “bad people” part, but at 40 years old I’ve seen enough people remain completely stuck in their dysfunctional patterns to have very little faith in rehabilitation.

Yeah, The problem is so many normal activities are criminalized in our puritanical society. Recreational drugs, recreational sex.

So many "criminals" don't need rehabilitation cause they haven't done anything wrong, anything rehabilitable.

The actual dysfunctional people are small percentage.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#89

Post by mulmen »

frockington wrote: post #68
izzydata wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but I am skeptical that they received the same chance as someone without a criminal record. Whether intentional or not there is probably some bias in the hiring process when you know they committed a felony or whatever it may be.

Two identical candidates, but one has a criminal past, you're going to take the non-criminal record every time. As unfair as it is in the larger picture, it's hard to justify the decision to hire a criminal when it's your neck on the line

You seem to have restated the problem.

Surely the decision should be based on the likelihood of future criminal action. If a criminal past is accepted as an indicator of future criminal activity then we have rejected the concept of rehabilitation. If this is the only deciding factor we may also blind ourselves to other risks.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#90

Post by justtopost »

mitjak wrote: post #84
frockington wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hoping more Canadians become stoners and push wages up for people with clean urine

how exactly would having more stoners up the wages?

Smaller hiring pool leading to higher wages for the sober drones is the implied hypothesis here if I am reading it right.
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