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“Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

scientificamerican.com

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Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#11

Post by andygcook »

I’m curious if this is nurtured behavior or behavior devolped through an evolutionary process, or both. This reminds me of the fox domestication experiment in Siberia in the 40’s. Researchers bred foxes, kept all the ones that didn’t show as many signs of being afraid of humans, then subsequently bred those ones again (the rest were turned into furs to fund the research.) This process is kind of like that, but in reverse. Will say that these don’t seem to be truly domesticated bettongs, so not quite the same, but still interested.

(edit - spelling)

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#12

Post by erikig »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #9
qubax wrote: post #8

Seems like pointless temporary exercise not even based in science. Even if you "teach" the current batch of rodents to be afraid of cats, how will their offspring be afraid of cats if they aren't naturally inclined to be fearful of predators? The way prey behavior is developed in nature is through evolution. In a batch of animals, there are mutations that cause a small portion of them to be naturally antsy, cautious…

>Subsequent generations of the test group are also avoiding cats, which indicates parents are passing the relevant behaviors along to their offspring.

Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#13

Post by moate »

erikig wrote: post #12
cf141q5325 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Subsequent generations of the test group are also avoiding cats, which indicates parents are passing the relevant behaviors along to their offspring.

Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?

A genetic predisposition towards being afraid of predators. The assumption is that if you have 100 mice, and 50 of them show signs of being afraid of cats, then you breed those mice to produce another 100, noting the pairs that produced them. You can then see how many of the offspring are afraid of cats, and select that group to produce the next generation.

Some of the fear of cats will be learned behavior, some of it will be instinct. It could also be that the ability to learn the behavior has genetic links (think naturally smart mice). If you keep this cycle going, eventually you have a group that should be higher than your initial 50% fear rate. It's possible that you can't selectively breed for this, but it's also possible that you can. This is in some ways the inverse of how humans domesticated many different species.

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#14

Post by cimmanom »

andygcook wrote: post #11

I’m curious if this is nurtured behavior or behavior devolped through an evolutionary process, or both. This reminds me of the fox domestication experiment in Siberia in the 40’s. Researchers bred foxes, kept all the ones that didn’t show as many signs of being afraid of humans, then subsequently bred those ones again (the rest were turned into furs to fund the research.) This process is kind of like that, but in rev…

It looks like it was a short-term experiment (way shorter than the lifespan of a single individual). The actual paper indicates the "bootcamp" lasted 18 months. And they had a control with two pens, only one exposed to the predators.

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#15

Post by cimmanom »

qubax wrote: post #8

Seems like pointless temporary exercise not even based in science. Even if you "teach" the current batch of rodents to be afraid of cats, how will their offspring be afraid of cats if they aren't naturally inclined to be fearful of predators? The way prey behavior is developed in nature is through evolution. In a batch of animals, there are mutations that cause a small portion of them to be naturally antsy, cautious…

You say that as if removing feral cats and other non-native predators is "simple".

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#16

Post by cimmanom »

erikig wrote: post #12
cf141q5325 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Subsequent generations of the test group are also avoiding cats, which indicates parents are passing the relevant behaviors along to their offspring.

Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?

In species where adults raise their young, the young are typically hanging around with the parent for a while between when they're able to walk/fly on their own and when they reach full maturity.

The parent sees/smells a predator and flees/hides; the young flee/hide with it. They learn that the response to the stimulus associated with the predator is to flee/hide.

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#17

Post by cimmanom »

moate wrote: post #13
erikig wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?

A genetic predisposition towards being afraid of predators. The assumption is that if you have 100 mice, and 50 of them show signs of being afraid of cats, then you breed those mice to produce another 100, noting the pairs that produced them. You can then see how many of the offspring are afraid of cats, and select that group to produce the next generation. Some of the fear of cats will be learned behavior, some of i…

This experiment seems to have been too short-term to have influenced genetics significantly.

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#18

Post by moate »

cimmanom wrote: post #17
moate wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A genetic predisposition towards being afraid of predators. The assumption is that if you have 100 mice, and 50 of them show signs of being afraid of cats, then you breed those mice to produce another 100, noting the pairs that produced them. You can then see how many of the offspring are afraid of cats, and select that group to produce the next generation. Some of the fear of cats will be learned behavior, some of i…

This experiment seems to have been too short-term to have influenced genetics significantly.

You're correct, this was only done with a couple generations of animals. Unlikely to have been enough for cultivated development of the behavior genetically. This seems to be more of a "let's just traumatize the animals and hope they change their behavior as a result".

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#19

Post by moate »

qubax wrote: post #8

Seems like pointless temporary exercise not even based in science. Even if you "teach" the current batch of rodents to be afraid of cats, how will their offspring be afraid of cats if they aren't naturally inclined to be fearful of predators? The way prey behavior is developed in nature is through evolution. In a batch of animals, there are mutations that cause a small portion of them to be naturally antsy, cautious…

Why isn't this based on science? These are people who work in animal behavior. If you traumatize an animal (including humans) it can change that creature's behavior, and affect their behavior in child rearing. Like you said, the creatures don't have time to evolve these traits to a genetic predisposition because of how quickly the predators were introduced.

>>Isn't the simple and obvious solution here is to remove feral cats and other non-native predators?

Obvious: yes. Simple: Have you heard of the phrase "herding cats"? No, eliminating invasive species is never easy, that's why they're problematic.

Re: “Predator boot camps” in Australia teach once-abundant mammals to fear predators

#20

Post by throwaway5752 »

erikig wrote: post #12
cf141q5325 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Subsequent generations of the test group are also avoiding cats, which indicates parents are passing the relevant behaviors along to their offspring.

Anyone know how these behaviors are passed on from parent to child?

By teaching? Parent demonstrates behavior, child learns. Same as in a human society.

Not speculation - emerging but well supported science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_culture

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