Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions • Hacker News Board

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#41

Post by andrepd » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #31

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

No offense, but many with criminal convictions are bad people. I know it may be nice to think otherwise. However there just are many people out there who are difficult if it not impossible to fully integrate into society. then you run into not society but government issues as well. just some examples my cousins run into all the time, they have to use temporary agencies to filter people and stock crews each week. Why?…

>many with criminal convictions are bad people

So are many people without criminal convictions. What's your point? I for one think that, say, the Walton heirs or similar rent-extracting landlord heirs are more of a drain on society than poverty-stricken kids selling drugs or making other bad life choices. Life isn't black and white, and further to the point data shows that rehabilitating criminals delivers better outcomes than shoving them into criminality schools (i.e. prisions), as it should be crushingly obvious by now.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#42

Post by sdegutis » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

Agustus wrote: post #30

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

The problem in hiring criminals is that they have committed a crime. Once they are brought to justice and sentenced, there is no real rehabilitation program, why we have such a high recidivism rate in the states. The best example of this is sexual predator label, if our society honestly believed they had been redeemed they would not need the label. The plan should be how can we get people who have been convicted to f…

> if our society honestly believed they had been redeemed they would not need the label

That assumes that "society" is correctly and fully informed on the issue. Sex offenders have one of the lowest recidivism rate compared to other crimes. Plus it is a diverse category with many different types of situations all lumped into the same connotation in people's minds.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#43

Post by GuB-42 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #12

drpgq wrote: post #11

I wonder what will happen in Canada once October 17th, the legalization date comes.

The majority of drug offenses (~55,000 of ~95,000) in Canada for 2016 were cannabis related. There must be hundreds of thousands of people living in Canada with criminal records due to marijuana prohibition. One would expect they'd wipe all of the records clean, recent or distant past.

Making something legal now doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime before. They may wipe records clean but there is no guarantee.

And I suppose most of the records are not just the result of simple consumption. It probably involved trafficking or maybe DUI, which will continue being illegal.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#44

Post by mbrameld » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #36

craigharley wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the…

Your quote says that 16% are in with drugs being their most serious crime. 48% include drugs as a crime, but 2/3 of them have a more serious crime as well. So I'd say the parent is right that 16% are in for drugs and would be set free if drugs were legal. The others in that 48% wouldn't be.

I wonder how often the more serious crime wouldn't have been charged had the drugs not let to it? For example, carrying a firearm isn't necessarily illegal, but carrying a firearm and weed in a place where weed is illegal is most likely a separate, non-drug charge like "carrying a firearm during the commission of a crime". Also how many non-drug arrests would have never happened if the officer hadn't been able to manufacture reasonable suspicion by simply saying, "I smell weed".

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#45

Post by bb611 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

gpmcadam wrote: post #2

What about the people who were convicted 15 years and 1 month ago? Or 16 years? Or 20 years? Feels pretty arbitrary.

The article doesn't address this, but the 15 years in question are actually 1996-2010. The city attorney's motion doesn't explain why, though it implies that the motion covers all cases prosecuted by that office.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#46

Post by iovrthoughtthis » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

romanovcode wrote: post #38

hvidgaard wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess your actions as a child and teenager defines who you are?

Kind of. Why wouldn't they?

Because people change.

Who you were last year is not who you are now.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#47

Post by thebigspacefuck » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:41 PM UTC

romanovcode wrote: post #38

hvidgaard wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess your actions as a child and teenager defines who you are?

Kind of. Why wouldn't they?

People grow up. I had my crimes expunged after 13 months of probation as a teenager. I went to college, stopped hanging out with bad influences, realized and cultivated my potential, moved across the country. I guess internally I sometimes still think about the things I did, but I'm glad I don't have to answer for it to anybody else. It seems so long ago and so radically different from my life now that I can't relate to it and it definitely doesn't feel like it defines who I am. I'm glad I'm not a Supreme Court pick. I am more aware of how situations affect people. Or at least me. I could easily see myself hanging around the same people and getting into more trouble. But at the same time, there was a reason I wanted to leave so badly and there's a reason I rarely go back. Maybe that is what should define me.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#48

Post by izzydata » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:50 PM UTC

Agustus wrote: post #30

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

The problem in hiring criminals is that they have committed a crime. Once they are brought to justice and sentenced, there is no real rehabilitation program, why we have such a high recidivism rate in the states. The best example of this is sexual predator label, if our society honestly believed they had been redeemed they would not need the label. The plan should be how can we get people who have been convicted to f…

"why we have such a high recidivism rate in the states."

Probably for the same reason. We never give them a fair chance afterward.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#49

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #48

Agustus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in hiring criminals is that they have committed a crime. Once they are brought to justice and sentenced, there is no real rehabilitation program, why we have such a high recidivism rate in the states. The best example of this is sexual predator label, if our society honestly believed they had been redeemed they would not need the label. The plan should be how can we get people who have been convicted to f…

"why we have such a high recidivism rate in the states." Probably for the same reason. We never give them a fair chance afterward.

A fair chance includes a difficult employment ecosystem for everybody. Even a fair chance, likely means they'll be unemployed.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#50

Post by bunderbunder » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #16

For comparison, what happened just after alcohol prohibition ended in the USA? (I'm not American, so not too familiar with this.)

Things bounced back petty quickly. It only took about 80 years for us to start having access to good beer again.

More seriously - I don't think organized crime went away. It was a big problem before prohibition, and it continued to be a big problem after. However, it may have been weakened by the loss of an extremely profitable revenue source. Alcoholism dropped precipitously during prohibition, and started coming back again after it ended. Given that the US has a huge problem with drunk driving, one could probably make a cogent argument that, with the repeal of prohibition, we replaced a relatively small but sensational amount of organized crime with a large, but relatively socially acceptable, amount of disorganized crime. One might presume that other crimes that tend to go hand-in-hand with alcohol, such as domestic and sexual assault, also got a boost from the repeal.

I'm not sure how well any of this applies to marijuana. With marijuana, the worst (non-government-imposed) externalities seem to be related to how gangs behave when they're financed by the illegal marijuana trade. With alcohol, the organized crime was a problem, but the worst problems seemed (and seem) to be a direct result of how people behave when they've been drinking.

One common thread, though, is that opposition to both bans seems to be a reaction to government overreach as much as anything else. The penalties being handed down for alcohol possession were every bit as outrageous as the ones we see for marijuana possession nowadays, and that played a big part in public perception of the law.