Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions • Hacker News Board

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#21

Post by XCabbage » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:01 PM UTC

craigharley wrote: post #14

kazishariar wrote: post #9

If this happens retroactively, 2/3 of the jail pop[ulations would be free to live their lives without pain, despair, the misery of 6x10 21 hours a day even. Fact.

Do you have a source for that? Not saying you're wrong but would be interested to read. I had a quick look but couldn't find one.

I'm not even sure what he's trying to say, but if he means to imply that 2/3 US prison inmates are inside for drug offences, it's nonsense. The real number isn't even 15%. See https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-offender....

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#22

Post by gdfasfklshg4 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:11 PM UTC

enedil wrote: post #13

gdfasfklshg4 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible news for those that didn't get included. The public will miss the details and think that everyone was included. Anyone with a conviction outside this arbitrary time period will be assumed to have some extenuating circumstances that meant that their conviction was upheld.

Is that really worse for people who were omitted by this legislature that this legislature passed? Because I can't see any change.

Yes it is. Before when a potential employer saw a cannabis conviction on a criminal records check they would have potentially ignored it because it is no longer a crime. Now they will think that all the previous convictions that should have been struck off have been struck off and any that show will be treated as having had enough merit to have been deliberately missed out.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#23

Post by craigharley » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:32 PM UTC

XCabbage wrote: post #21

craigharley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that? Not saying you're wrong but would be interested to read. I had a quick look but couldn't find one.

I'm not even sure what he's trying to say, but if he means to imply that 2/3 US prison inmates are inside for drug offences, it's nonsense. The real number isn't even 15%. See https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-offender... .

According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the latest jail statistics are from midyear 2014, and the latest prison statistics from year-end 2013.) That’s an incarceration rate of about 725 people per 100,000 population.

Looks like for federal prisons it's as high as 48.6%, but that looks like it's for all drugs not just cannabis.

It's also probably too big a leap to speculate how many people are incarcerated for drug related incidents (theft to get money to feed a habit for example). Crimes which would probably be greatly reduced in a treatment over prohibition system.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#24

Post by Nasrudith » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:45 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #17

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

Curious: don't these people still have to report the arrests in some forms /for some jobs even if they're vacated? "Have you ever been arrested or jailed..." I know US immigration specifically asks to mention even if pardoned or expunged.

Isn't asking just if one has been arrested in an interview for nonlaw enforcement positions technically an illegal question without qualifiers to specifically exclude the ones that didn't result in conviction or admission of guilt?

Arrest doesn't imply conviction or even the low bar for indictment. For instance SWAT protocol is to cuff literally everybody else possible on the scene for one and then assess and release after the scene is secured. One would have to be completely stupid and paranoid to think you shouldn't hire someone because they were in a bank robbery turned hostage situation as a victim.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#25

Post by teh_klev » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:48 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #20

onetimemanytime wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: don't these people still have to report the arrests in some forms /for some jobs even if they're vacated? "Have you ever been arrested or jailed..." I know US immigration specifically asks to mention even if pardoned or expunged.

not sure what types of jobs would make you answer that question (outside of security maybe), but at least in principle, such questions should be completely illegitimate within the US legal system.

In Scotland there's a system called "Disclosure"[0]. There are different types of disclosure[1]:

- Basic disclosure

- Standard disclosure

- Enhanced disclosure

- Protecting Vulnerable Groups (PVG) Scheme

Depending on the level of disclosure, "spent" convictions may need to be disclosed. You can however apply for spent convictions to be removed from the disclosure process.

As an employee for a private consultancy which was carrying out software development work for the Scottish Government I had to get a Basic Disclosure to be able to perform my duties on that contract.

It's not that unusual for certain types of work.

[0]: https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland/

[1]: https://www.mygov.scot/disclosure-types/

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#26

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:48 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

Yeah! I only judge people on their actions, not their skin or hair or...wait. That's what a criminal record is?

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#27

Post by Fjolsvith » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:54 PM UTC

kazishariar wrote: post #9

If this happens retroactively, 2/3 of the jail pop[ulations would be free to live their lives without pain, despair, the misery of 6x10 21 hours a day even. Fact.

They would have 420 times less pain, despair and misery.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#28

Post by phatboyslim » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:58 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #16

For comparison, what happened just after alcohol prohibition ended in the USA? (I'm not American, so not too familiar with this.)

This comparison isn't useful IMO because alcohol had actually been legal prior to prohibition introduced by puritanism. If anything I'd say prohibition gave people pause since alcoholism and heavy drinking was quite common prior to it being introduced. (Note: I'm not against marijuana legalization/decriminalization - just making an observation).

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#29

Post by hvidgaard » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #26

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

Yeah! I only judge people on their actions, not their skin or hair or...wait. That's what a criminal record is?

I guess your actions as a child and teenager defines who you are?

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#30

Post by Agustus » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

The problem in hiring criminals is that they have committed a crime. Once they are brought to justice and sentenced, there is no real rehabilitation program, why we have such a high recidivism rate in the states. The best example of this is sexual predator label, if our society honestly believed they had been redeemed they would not need the label.

The plan should be how can we get people who have been convicted to find ways to signal that they are rehabilitated. Otherwise, companies will avoid the risk of hiring a criminal and the liability of the lawsuit that might occur if said criminal commits another crime and the company is sued for hiring someone who had committed that crime before.