SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#661

Post by JoshCole » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #617

JoshCole wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that Tesla is drastically missing its production targets is overstated. It originally claimed that what was later named the Model 3 would begin production in 2017. This claim was made as far back as 2014. This occurred as projected. It has since been ramping up steadily. The rate of that ramp up has been slower than initially projected, but is well within the long-term projected numbers. Critically, Tesla ra…

> The idea that Tesla is drastically missing its production targets is overstated. The target misses seem like quite a bit more than tiny, immaterial/technical misses. July 2017 projection of 1500 Model 3s in Sept and 20,000 in December with actuals of 260 and 2425 (17% and 12% of target, respectively). [0] - https://www.statista.com/chart/12415/tesla-deliveries-and-mo... Word choice tip, intended as incidental and c…

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it. I also appreciate the extra effort you put into making sure I interpreted in the spirit in which it is given. It can be hard to understand intent via text.

You're right. They definitely aren't immaterial misses. I'm not trying to deny that there are misses.

I'm trying to talk about the vector that Tesla is representing and the way that vector makes the claims about their misses less important. There is now a new trend in the auto industry, with the monthly sales of ICE vehicles going down every month and the number of electric vehicles sold every month going up. Tesla is now projected to have a vehicle within the top 20 most sold vehicles in the United States. They are projected to be first by vehicle revenue for a single model. They are doing worse than they wanted, but not terribly. They need support, in my view, so that they can continue their mission of electrifying transport. Not to be torn down, which feels almost suicidal at societal scale for as long as the other manufacturers still make most of their income on ICE vehicles.

Though, I suppose legislators will eventually ban those vehicles outright, it is already starting to happen in some places.

Hope you have a wonderful day. As for me, I'm in the house of mourning. I'm certain that more people are going to suffer in the future. It has me really down. I'm watching people trying to bet on disasters occurring, seeing another person realize this and try to do something to fix it, and then seeing that blow up in the most horrible way. It is tragedy. Already, I have friends and family that have been impacted by climate change. I can't stop caring about them.

We're late on stopping climate change. So is Tesla. It sucks.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#662

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:11 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #642

rjdagost wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of longs loaded up on Tesla shares because they believed his "funding secured" tweet. Are you OK with them losing their shirts, too? Because many of them did.

"long" is a misleading label for someone buying for the purpose of being immediately bought out. Also someone that bought stock in that period would have lost something like 355->320 which is only 10%. If someone leveraged up to take advantage of a short-term pricing condition then they get vastly reduced sympathy no matter which direction their position was.

"long" in this case is a direction (net owner of shares), not a duration.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#663

Post by hef19898 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:13 AM UTC

vital_sol wrote: post #393

DennisP wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla completely changed the public perception of electric cars, from slow eco-friendly compacts to high-performance sports cars. Without Tesla I doubt that Mercedes would be spending $12 billion on electric cars, or Porsche would be releasing an electric car next year with a 0-60 time of 3.5 seconds and a nationwide fast charging network in the U.S. Tesla proved that it's possible and that there's demand for it. Spa…

Well, Jeff Bezos with Blue Origin is so far behind that they haven't launched anything to the Low Earth Orbit yet, and as far as I know they don't have plans to launch to LEO for the next few years. So wrg to reusable launch vehicles, so far SpaceX is the only game in town. OTOH, Jeff Bezos has more money and can speed things up if he wants.

SpaceX is the only serious private company. And without government launches they would have a hard time as well. In the de-facto public sector you have the Russians, Ariane, the Chinese, the Indians... It's not that there wouldn't be anything in space without SpaceX. The thing I love about SpaceX is how they showed what can be done without the over abundance of bureaucracy you see elsewhere. Not that programs like Ariane would have learned the smallest bit from it.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#664

Post by godzillabrennus » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:15 AM UTC

chrisweekly wrote: post #486

asn0 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've started to think Apple is more competitive on laptops than it looks from the price. Every time I've priced out a laptop with similar configuration to my MBP (including a good-quality display, NvME SSD, good battery life), it always ends up costing about the same as an MBP. And then Apple's customer service definitely tips in their favor (I've been spoiled by fast, convenient, competent repair service at the Appl…

I was just commenting to my wife how remarkable I find it that my 2012 Macbook Pro 15 Retina is meeting all my needs as a software consultant. I used to think 3 years, maybe 4, was the useful lifespan of a high-end machine for daily professional use. In a few months it'll be 7 (seven) years old. It has 3 or 4 dead pixels, but everything else about it is working flawlessly. Maybe they don't make em like they used to,…

I have owned four MacBook Pros since the introduction of the 2012 retina.

The years being 2012, 2014, 2015, and 2017.

The only two working still are the 2012 and the 2017 but I had a warranty swap on the 2017 in early 2018.

That 2012 model is incredible.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#665

Post by gfody » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:20 AM UTC

does the SEC have a case? Elon can say the post was a joke (probably the truth), or that he sincerely intended to take the company private at $420 after smoking a joint with a potential backer but then later thought better of it, say he even confessed that his tweet was a deliberate attempt to mislead short-sited investors in a lapse of moral judgement; it would still be just a note on a social network, not an official company announcement. what if he left his phone unattended and someone made that tweet, would the SEC be suing him for negligently managing his twitter stream? isn't the real problem that too many "investors" are making short-sited decisions based on nonsense posted to social networks?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#666

Post by hef19898 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:22 AM UTC

dirkgently wrote: post #467

chollida1 wrote: post #6

This comment I made a few weeks ago is coming alot closer to the truth than I would have expected. I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016250#18016292 SpaceX is doing well, Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company. All Elon had to do was keep his head down and n…

> I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. Why? Because Elon is a special snowflake and deserves a different treatment than other white-collar criminals?

Absolutely not, when and if he is found guilty of market manipulation then be it, he deserves everything that coming his way. If not then, well not. It would just be pitty that hubris has destroyed a great legacy in that case. And, even more troubling, with Tesla basically being Musk its future, and that of its employees, looks rather grim all things considered. Best thing for Tesla would be if Musk was not found guilty and stepped down none the less. I don't see that happening so.

SpaceX should be fine I think, even without him.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#667

Post by techstrategist » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:27 AM UTC

theptip wrote: post #572

I think there's a bit of overexcitement going on in this thread; it doesn't look to me like Musk is going to jail on this one. This part is interesting: > The SEC had crafted a settlement with Musk that it was preparing to file Thursday morning, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing unidentified people familiar with the matter. Musk’s lawyers called SEC lawyers to say they were no longer interested in proceeding w…

> If his lawyers had a settlement lined up, and then retracted it, that means that they are confident they can win a better outcome in court.

It only means that the decision was made to risk a worse outcome in court in hopes of getting a better one. Musk is famously willing to take big risks and make big decisions himself, so it’s possible that his lawyers do not have such confidence and recommended taking the settlement.

It’s also possible that he sees this as the only chance to retain control of the company, which would be such a bad outcome that he feels he must do anything to avoid it.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#668

Post by MrPatan » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:29 AM UTC

refoundglory wrote: post #445

mikeg8 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea he’ll join all the other billionaires in jail. I would say he looks pretty guilty of fraud but agree he will never see a cell, just heavy fines. And spaceX may survive without him but losing musk would suck a ton of wind out of their sails.

Martha Stewart was a billionaire when she went to jail for insider trading.

Did she go to jail for insider trading? Or for lying to the FBI?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#669

Post by 55555 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:29 AM UTC

dirkgently wrote: post #467

chollida1 wrote: post #6

This comment I made a few weeks ago is coming alot closer to the truth than I would have expected. I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016250#18016292 SpaceX is doing well, Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company. All Elon had to do was keep his head down and n…

> I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. Why? Because Elon is a special snowflake and deserves a different treatment than other white-collar criminals?

How about because nobody should be able to go from perfectly fine to having ruined their life* in under 30 seconds. you have one dumb thought, open twitter on your phone, push tweet, and it's over. That's not an ability people should have. We are impulsive and often dumb.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#670

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 5:30 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #662

Dylan16807 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"long" is a misleading label for someone buying for the purpose of being immediately bought out. Also someone that bought stock in that period would have lost something like 355->320 which is only 10%. If someone leveraged up to take advantage of a short-term pricing condition then they get vastly reduced sympathy no matter which direction their position was.

"long" in this case is a direction (net owner of shares), not a duration.

I know that. You're not really addressing my point...