SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#341

Post by Arzh » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #150

Arzh wrote: post #120

What if it was true, what if he was working with a group to secure funding to take the company private? Would that make the claim that he was 'deceiving' the investors invalid? I don't really know anything about this kinda thing but I would think if he was just saying that he was working towards that goal but deiced not to do it wouldn't be 'deceiving.'

When I'm making a deal, I usually keep my mouth shut about it until every document that needs to be signed, has been signed. The Musk worship on here and the Internet in general has for too long overlooked his impulsive behaviour in the capacity of his CEO role.

I don't find impulsiveness to bar someone from being am effective CEO (though I might not invest in that company). I was looking for a more reasoned answer around if it would still be illegal to say what he did if he actually had the backing he was alluding to. The answer that jonknee gave shows that my question is not the case in this instance but it was a more hypothetical.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#342

Post by colordrops » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #333

colordrops wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing a few facts that completely oppose the point of your comment: the model S is not Tesla's first electric - that would be the Roadster, which was release a couple years before the other cars you mention. Chevy Volt is not full electric and can't get very far on pure electric. And the Nissan Leaf is a glorified golf cart that doesn't surpass 100 miles on a charge. The frank truth is that both the better…

The Volt was also not GM’s first EV. Both the Roadster and GM’s EV 1 were niche products. You can call the Leaf a golf cart, but it’s sold more vehicles than the Model S. Yes the Model S has more performance, but it’s also a vastly more expensive car. As to other manufacturers, they were “building up electric manufacturing capability” before Tesla. Toyota was selling thr first RAV 4 EV before Tesla was even founded.…

Are you aware that the RAV 4 EV used Tesla batteries?

Regarding the Roadster being "niche", it still looked like a normal car at least, unlike the EV 1, and any other electric car at the time. Furthermore, they had a roadmap to more affordable cars that still fit the moniker "normal". Other car companies were just running their EV projects as experiments, or as a way to appease California legislators to meet quotas, or simply retrofitting a non electric frame with batteries in a way that left much to be desired.

No one was trying to make a non-toy full electric car until Tesla.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by agumonkey » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:45 PM UTC

This is his Pepsi moment. Ousted from Tesla, will have to hang low and learn more, and will buy back Tesla (with the help of William Gates)

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by maxxxxx » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:46 PM UTC

reanimated wrote: post #330

maxxxxx wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. He makes it sound like he is the guy who figures out all that stuff in his basement. It's hard to imagine that a CEO of two companies that size has the time to do any real engineering. He seems more the type who has good memory and can repeat what the engineered are telling him. My VP is like that. He immediately comprehends and remembers what you tell him but he is not doing any development work.

So you want to say if you can understand, can discuss with engineer leeds, can make a decision and accept or decline a solutions to the problem which your company is making, you're not involved in the development work?

Not in the sense that he is doing active development work.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by snake117 » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

quenstionsasked wrote: post #263

the_rosentotter wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't doubt he's capable of doing that with his background Which background is that? He has an undergraduate degree in economics and a bachelor's degree in physics. I respect the guy but he clearly puts a lot into managing his image. As a relevant example, he used to claim to have been in the Ph.D. program at Stanford, but had to retract that (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to find that on Google).

I'm very curious about the Stanford thing. Do you mean that he was never admitted? Or simply that he never officially enrolled? I tried my hand at googling this but found nothing but re-hashes of the same story of how he left after two days.

I remember reading in Elon Musk: Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future something that Elon had been formally admitted to the PhD program at Stanford, but dropped out after three days. Vance contacted the Registrar's Office (or the graduate department itself?, I cannot remember) and received the confirmation that he was admitted.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by bllguo » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

jjdag wrote: post #293

While there isn't much doubt that Musk is at fault here, I wonder how a business owner should react when perceiving that his company is threatened by some journalists and (social) media influencers who seemingly have ties with short sellers. I understand that shorting helps stabilize markets but in this case with Tesla being the most shorted stock it seems that forces were at work to stain the company's reputation in…

I'm just baffled by this narrative about a shadowy cabal of nefarious short sellers. Is the claim that there is no reason to have legitimate concerns about Tesla?

Honestly it just reeks of people being in over their heads regarding the markets. It's about as compelling an argument as those ridiculous George Soros conspiracies

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by vkou » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

openmosix wrote: post #291

ble wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is not a public company so I don't see how a ban would affect Musk w/ r.t. SpaceX. also, otoh: think about the good things that could happen to $TSLA when Elon is removed from being a CEO.

Not sure though. SpaceX is a federal contractor. And to be at the helm of a company with federal access, you might need a clean record. When Musk was smoking pot on radio, the AirForce had to look into it to see if there was any actions they needed to take.

Why didn't they? He was committing a federal crime.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by eanzenberg » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:49 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #224

threeseed wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just revisionist history and completely wrong. Steve Jobs pretty much set Apple on the premium goods track when he returned. The iMac, iPod, iPad, iPhone were all developed under his watch and all were premium priced. Apple has pushed the margins higher but that's only because the market can absorb it. Computing is more central to people's lives and they are willing to pay a premium for a good experience.

This is just revisionist history and completely wrong. Steve Jobs pretty much set Apple on the premium goods track when he returned You are revising what I actually said, and about that you are completely wrong. I never denied that Jobs set Apple on the premium goods track. However, he was one of the major forces keeping it from devolving into being only a peddler of luxury goods. Tech innovation does better with goo…

Apple produces better products than google and microsoft, get over it. The market decided.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by drawkbox » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:49 PM UTC

kazen44 wrote: post #223

drawkbox wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk survived the Great Recession when other car companies needed bailouts, that is pretty good line item. Ford probably would have needed one as well if Ford's didn't still run it. Elon is also an engineer first, that is needed at innovative companies, not some metric focused MBA C-level executive just looking to cash out. Musk actually cares about what he is building and has done a smashing job considering the…

> Elon Musk survived the Great Recession when other car companies needed bailouts, that is pretty good line item. Ford probably would have needed one as well if Ford's didn't still run it. This has little to do with producing cars, and more to do with (financial) management. (Also, most major european car makers survived the great recession just fine).

> most major european car makers survived the great recession just fine

Most of the European (Mercedes/BMW) engineering and product people have power. Even Honda for a long time engineers/product people drove most of the decisions and power structures. American car companies not so much, most MBA / bizdev lead over engineering and product people. Germany is unique in that engineering and the product quality is highly respected over short term gains only.

Additionally, BMW/Mercedes/etc cars also target the upper classes that weren't as affected by the Great Recession so they didn't have the pressures as much as the US car companies that needed bailouts. American industries targeting consumers in upper class and wealth didn't suffer as much.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Post by vkou » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 10:49 PM UTC

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #267

DennisP wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it a private company, but "A Musk trust owns 54 percent of the outstanding stock of SpaceX, and has voting control of 78 percent of the outstanding shares....No other shareholder owns 10 percent or more." Short of a criminal conviction I think he'll be fine with SpaceX. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-spacex-shareholders... Given that Musk has made his point with electric cars and major luxury br…

The battery and solar operations side of TSLA are critical to spaceX's mission to Mars. Can't have a martian colony without being able to harvest and store energy. Additionally the CV being done at Tesla could prove critical in automating prefabrication of living spaces and life support infrastructure. Can't be doing anything like that remote controlled with 8 min latency.

> The battery and solar operations side of TSLA are critical to spaceX's mission to Mars.

What stops them from buying off-the-shelf commodities? Why the NIH? Didn't they, to much nerd fanfare, famously make all of TSLA's patents public two years ago? What stops them from sourcing these components from someone else?