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Found hooked up to my router

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Re: Found hooked up to my router

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have no idea how it could accomplish what is alleged. Just lots of very bad no good end of world comments. Have none of these people ever used public wifi?

Have none of these people ever used public wifi? This situation is totally totally unlike public wifi! When I connect to public wifi, the attack surface into my laptop is the external interface of the latest MacOS, with firewall on. Perhaps there are exploits against that, but they're not common. The Mac does have pf, but I'm sure it's a way out of date version! :) OTOH, "this thing" on the inside of a router/firewal…

>And even if I were totally paranoid, what can I do about the Internet of shit? Am I supposed to strictly segment everything?

Frankly yes, or at least it should be in the back of your mind when you inevitably need to upgrade some gear down the road anyway and thus the marginal cost is lower. People on HN talking about Ubiquiti probably sounds like a broken record at this point and there are certainly other providers and solutions, but you should recognize that solid centralized management and VLAN functionality and the like now has fairly good SoHo options at SoHo pricing too. You don't need to run right out and buy stuff, particularly since 802.11ax looks like it'll be a much more significant general upgrade then anything since the original AC with its focus on more efficient utilization rather then theoreticals.

But when you do, you should be getting something that lets you trivially soft-segment your network at will. At the least shoving IOT, any VoIP, and any cameras onto their own VLANs separate from your main systems is a good idea (not just for security but it can help performance too for VoIP, if you ever use it). At this point particularly with IOT I'd consider that a minimum required feature for any network gear to even be on the list for an upgrade.

>At what point does prudence and caution drift into paranoia?

At the point where hacks aren't trivially automatable for drive by and the difficulty of anything more is higher then the value of getting your stuff. When it comes to IOT though that point is regrettably a long long LONG way off, the security practices in that space are so utterly abysmal even before the typical practice of no updates ever comes in, assuming it's not actively backdoored. And of course this isn't just about you, IOT botnets are a threat to the whole net.

There certainly can be histrionics around this stuff that aren't justified, but I don't think basic segmentation, firewalling, pi-hole, and (if you must have your IOT on the public net though really you should consider using a VPN instead please) strict IP whitelist access or at least rate limits are unreasonable at all. Certainly not for the HN crowd. We can do our parts at least for our own benefit, and maybe[0] even help keep a few coworkers/family/friends/neighbors from contributing their uplinks to DDOSing our stuff too.

0: I genuinely mean "maybe" there, I know very well the payless thankless time sink it can be to take on any sort of IT work after hours. Depends on what family and friends are like. Still, sometimes though fairly low commitment/high return tips are available, or some simple trade of skills, an afternoon helping set up a better network for an afternoon of them helping with something.

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#62

This just made me think of an interesting idea: Imagine a small loop-back-like device which is plugged into all open network ports - if any of them are removed from a network port, an alert is generated stating "device from port 48 on switch 1 in closet 0 was removed"

In general it's best practice to leave unused ports on managed switches in an admin down/shut state until something you know is connected. Or live, but in a quarantine VLAN. Your idea, however, is not totally uncommon to have a raspbery pi sized device at an offsite location, specifically not plugged into any sort of UPS, which is monitored by various alerting systems. In addition to the alerts that one should get du…

My college used to do similar. If you did not register your MAC address, you would be DHCP assigned into a walled-garden IP block.

We found we could run an IP scanner on the authorized subnet (from a computer with a whitelisted MAC), and find the unused IPs, and just set those statically for 'visitors'.

No need to register any more MAC addresses.

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#63
I don't see how this 'man' in the middle could actually intercept passwords, except for http, but who runs auth over http anyway. For https, the 'man' would have to substitute its own certificate and then the browser / client software wouldn't trust the cert/domain combination without the end user being extremely stupid (and knowledgeable enough to achieve the stupidity).

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#65
Two extremes as displayed on same day:

a. Gizmodo says Facebook Is Giving Advertisers Access to Your Shadow Contact Information and HNers are concerned

b. IRL, Roommate also gave them their Facebook email and password (for $15/mth)

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#66
post #47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luminati.io merely uses the Hola extension to power a massive residential IP network. Hardware is so 2000.

They've gone well beyond the extension now. These days you have no idea if that "free" app you've installed has made a deal with Luminati to sell your bandwidth to the highest bidder. They also have an Android SDK too. I've received several emails like the following: > My name is Lior and I lead the SDK partnerships at Luminati.​ I assume your > software earns money by charging users for a premium subscription or by…

3 cents per user per month. Is that right?

Is it hard to make 3 cents a month from a user?

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have none of these people ever used public wifi? This situation is totally totally unlike public wifi! When I connect to public wifi, the attack surface into my laptop is the external interface of the latest MacOS, with firewall on. Perhaps there are exploits against that, but they're not common. The Mac does have pf, but I'm sure it's a way out of date version! :) OTOH, "this thing" on the inside of a router/firewal…

My rule of thumb is: if i have root on the device, it can go behind my private LAN firewall. If I don’t have root, but the device requires Internet, it goes in the guest network which gets throttled and has no access to my LAN. I also scrutinize outbound more on this network. If I don’t have root and it doesn’t need Internet? It stays airgapped.

Decent rules of thumb, though even with root I'd base it more on whether the device really needs general access or not. Speaking of which, a corollary I use is: if an IOT device requires internet access it's automatically bad and I won't even consider it. If they want to offer some built-in but fully optional "access away from home" that wants to use their cloud that's fine, I can just block that anyway and use VPN. If it wants to access one specific address for updates (though you don't have to) or as an optional passive information feed I can see that. But anything IOT that depends on remote resources for its core functionality is right out.

That eliminates a surprising number of IOT devices, but given the flood of crap I think that's no bad thing. These days being able to have something be LAN only with zero service tie-ins seems a decent low pass filter to narrow down choices before diving any deeper.

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#68

I don't see how this 'man' in the middle could actually intercept passwords, except for http, but who runs auth over http anyway. For https, the 'man' would have to substitute its own certificate and then the browser / client software wouldn't trust the cert/domain combination without the end user being extremely stupid (and knowledgeable enough to achieve the stupidity).

What about DNS spoofing[1] at the local network level?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_spoofing

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#69

This just made me think of an interesting idea: Imagine a small loop-back-like device which is plugged into all open network ports - if any of them are removed from a network port, an alert is generated stating "device from port 48 on switch 1 in closet 0 was removed"

People don't fully power off their computers or take their laptops home where you work, huh?

Re: Found hooked up to my router

#70
post #68

I don't see how this 'man' in the middle could actually intercept passwords, except for http, but who runs auth over http anyway. For https, the 'man' would have to substitute its own certificate and then the browser / client software wouldn't trust the cert/domain combination without the end user being extremely stupid (and knowledgeable enough to achieve the stupidity).

What about DNS spoofing[1] at the local network level? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_spoofing

The spoofer wouldn’t be able to obtain a valid certificate for the spoofed site, though.
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