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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#321

Post by tomatocracy »

philwelch wrote: post #195
buboard wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference with Gates and Jobs is Tesla has not delivered, i.e. it has not become profitable enough to guarantee success in the future. At this point he's indispensable. (There is also the thought that without him Tesla does not have an advantage vs cheaper competitors from all around the world)

> Tesla has not delivered, i.e. it has not become profitable enough to guarantee success in the future And based on that track record, in addition to violating security laws, you conclude that Musk is essential to the business? Strange.

There's an argument that that makes him more essential, because (so the argument goes) one thing he has been demonstrably good at is fundraising.

Not sure if I buy it or not - I've not looked into it in enough detail really - but for a Company in that kind of position it's an important attribute for the senior executive team to have.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#322

Post by rayiner »

rococode wrote: post #304
rayiner wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better for him if it's an obvious marijuana reference. That way he can argue it was a joke that no reasonable investor would have relied upon.

I'm curious, does "reasonable" actually matter in a case like this? Say he tweeted "I just killed someone LOL" and the stock price drops. Could that also be construed as misleading investors?

The SEC needs to prove he made a “materially” false and misleading statement. The Supreme Court has defined a “material” fact for purposes of the securities laws to mean that there is:

> a substantial likelihood that the...fact would have been viewed by the reasonable investor as having significantly altered the “total mix” of information made available.

If a statement is an obvious joke, no reasonable investor could have viewed it as altering the mix of relevant information.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#323

Post by FLUX-YOU »

UpshotKnothole wrote: post #307
TrainedMonkey wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is national security launch services provider, no way he is going to jail.

Why not? SpaceX will tick along without him, and he won’t leak classified material because then the prison he’d be in would deep and dark indeed.

I'm not so sure, one of the other space companies could start poaching talent and there's no way they can continue the government contracts with a huge loss of critical staff.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#324

Post by scythe »

rayiner wrote: post #128
drawkbox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

> It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize Sure it can. Tesla has done basically nothing for self-driving cars, it's technology is glorified lane-keeping. As to electric cars, the Model S is the third best-selling electric car ever, after the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt. Both of those cars were introduc…

>Electric cars are not yet mainstream, but when the become mainstream, they're going to look a lot more like a Chevy Volt than a Model S or Model 3.

Is your argument based on the form factor? Tesla's EV value proposition is based on the range of the battery pack, which blows the Leaf out of the water (the Volt is a hybrid). Switching to a smaller form factor (hatchback) would increase Tesla's range advantage.

How is putting an electric motor in a slightly different shape of car a more important accomplishment than making it run for 300 miles on a charge? The end-game car might look like a Chevy Volt on the outside, but under the hood it'll look more like a Tesla. Also, the cross-over SUV only replaced the station wagon as a way to exploit emissions regulations, which will no longer be relevant for EVs; see:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107161_are-you-driving...

Also, as 'colordrops noted, the Roadster predates the Leaf and the Volt, and may have inspired automakers to compete with Tesla.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#325

Post by romed »

jjdag wrote: post #293

While there isn't much doubt that Musk is at fault here, I wonder how a business owner should react when perceiving that his company is threatened by some journalists and (social) media influencers who seemingly have ties with short sellers. I understand that shorting helps stabilize markets but in this case with Tesla being the most shorted stock it seems that forces were at work to stain the company's reputation in…

If a CEO of a publicly traded company expresses a belief in a short-side/journalism conspiracy, the board of that company should relieve that person of their duties right away. All such people in recent history have been paranoid cranks who drove their companies into the ground. See: Overstock

As for Tesla specifically, there is an overt and massive "conspiracy" on the part of the long side to cheer their share price. There are numerous online news outlets that are shameless boosters of Tesla. The idea that there's a big conspiracy between short sellers and journalists has no supporting evidence whatsoever.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#326

Post by secabeen »

tareqak wrote: post #4

What would be the argument in his defense?

I think they'll not play for defense, they'll play for a settlement of a big fine, that he'll pay personally, and only a fine. The primary risk is the ban from being CEO, and they can probably avoid that if the SEC is willing to treat it as a teaching moment for Elon.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#327

Post by jonknee »

jczhang wrote: post #320
jonknee wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? He's a huge liability to the company every day he remains with this hanging over his head. The SEC directly says he "violated, and unless restrained and enjoined will continue to violate, Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act". Other than a fine, they're pushing for him to be barred from serving as an officer of a public company.

Because this is simply how SEC politics work. It rarely goes that far, and it's like 99% a fine. They don't actually have That much power beyond that.

Well it also rarely goes to filing a lawsuit against the CEO... So I guess who knows, but if I was on the board I'd be reading the D&O insurance policy quite closely.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#328

Post by dmitrygr »

He responded:

“This unjustified action by the SEC leaves me deeply saddened and disappointed. I have always taken action in the best interests of truth, transparency and investors. Integrity is the most important value in my life and the facts will show I never compromised this in any way.”

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/27/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-respon...

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#329

Post by isostatic »

baxtr wrote: post #235
Animats wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you say that for example the Apple Watch is "nothing new"? Pebble.

So then the iPhone was nothing new either?

Indeed, and the ipod had no wireless and less space than a nomad, it was lame.

Oh wait, while Malda was technically right, it turned music files mainstream, and the iPhone turned touchscreen phones mainstream

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#330

Post by reanimated »

maxxxxx wrote: post #152
djsumdog wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hope the company itself would be fine. I really hate this idea of the grand visionary. A good friend of mine who is a mechanical engineer despises Musk. I listened to a bit of his Joe Regan interview and when Regan asked him how he has the time to do all of the things he does, there are smoke jokes about him being an alien, but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the tho…

Totally agree. He makes it sound like he is the guy who figures out all that stuff in his basement. It's hard to imagine that a CEO of two companies that size has the time to do any real engineering. He seems more the type who has good memory and can repeat what the engineered are telling him. My VP is like that. He immediately comprehends and remembers what you tell him but he is not doing any development work.

So you want to say if you can understand, can discuss with engineer leeds, can make a decision and accept or decline a solutions to the problem which your company is making, you're not involved in the development work?
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