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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#241

Post by drawkbox »

treis wrote: post #84

>According to Musk, he calculated the $420 price per share based on a 20% premium over that day’s closing share price because he thought 20% was a “standard premium” in going-private transactions. This calculation resulted in a price of $419, and Musk stated tha the rounded the price up to $420 because he had recently learned about the number’s significance in marijuana culture and thought his girlfriend “would find…

Apple's first Apple I sold for $666.66 [1]. Teslas are Model S, Model 3, Model X, (S3X). Model E was taken so they had to go with Model 3. Possibly a Model Y coming (S3XY).

People can have fun at work still, though shorts and MBA C-level execs that want to take over the company and drive it into the ground, milking the innovations without innovating for future, will end that fun.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_I

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#242

Post by gamblor956 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #199
gamblor956 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most business leaders in the world are far more capable than Musk at actually running successful companies. You just don't hear about them because they spend their time running their companies or with their families instead of bragging about what a great job they're doing on twitter. (Here's a hint: if you have to publicly brag about doing a great job, you really aren't.)

No, they're not. If they did, they'd be making headlines. A lot of execs are good at extracting value from pre-established business models, but few would have the intuition, intelligence, and risk-taking capacity to create the kind of innovative companies that Musk has.

It's generally not news for a businessperson to be doing a good job, because that's expected of them, especially in an up-economy.

intuition, intelligence, and risk-taking capacity to create the kind of innovative companies that Musk has.

Citations needed. Paypal's success was based on Thiel's technology and IP, not Musk's. SpaceX was a non-contender until Shotwell took over running things. Hyperloop hyper-hasn't gone anywhere in 5 years. Tesla has missed every deadline and milestone its ever set for itself, and has never made a profit--it's only cash-flow positive quarter was from a one-time flash sale of emissions credits.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#243

Post by Rooster61 »

smt88 wrote: post #197
Rooster61 wrote: post #192

I very much hate to see this. Not for Musk's sake, as he has been pretty much asking for something like this to happen. I hate it because of the damage it will do to Tesla and SpaceX when he's likely banned from leading a company. Tesla's not exactly lighting the world on fire in terms of potential long term success, but SpaceX really has been doing well in recent years. The fact that they are already refurbishing so…

Get a new, non-founding CEO has worked wonders for lots of companies. There are very few (possibly zero) people who are "the only person for the job".

Musk wasn't a founding member of Tesla. In fact, not all of the founders of Tesla were big fans of Musk's hire.

Your point is valid though, and I do think someone could go in there and take over his job effectively. That doesn't mean there won't be a period of relative instability while that transition takes place.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#245

Post by dwighttk »

ble wrote: post #204
Rooster61 wrote: post #192

I very much hate to see this. Not for Musk's sake, as he has been pretty much asking for something like this to happen. I hate it because of the damage it will do to Tesla and SpaceX when he's likely banned from leading a company. Tesla's not exactly lighting the world on fire in terms of potential long term success, but SpaceX really has been doing well in recent years. The fact that they are already refurbishing so…

SpaceX is not a public company so I don't see how a ban would affect Musk w/ r.t. SpaceX. also, otoh: think about the good things that could happen to $TSLA when Elon is removed from being a CEO.

If he's banned from leading Tesla, perhaps he'll start mucking SpaceX up with his newly available attention.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#246

Post by Animats »

He definitely lost it. And it's going to cost him. This is an open and shut case against Musk. He definitely sent out that tweet. Yes, maybe just not enough sleep and too many drugs. Not a good excuse.

Tesla might do better with a new CEO. They're past the vision stage. Tesla's problems today are all those of running a big auto plant.

Musk might do better focusing on Space-X.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#247

Post by Someone »

valarauca1 wrote: post #28
tareqak wrote: post #4

What would be the argument in his defense?

There really isn't. According to the case [1]. On Nov 23rd, 2013 Telsa filled Form 8-K with the SEC that Elon's twitter account was a means of official company communication. So they can't say this wasn't Musk or Telsa's responsibility, or that the statement was unofficial. It was an official company statement meant to deceive investors. I think the best he can hope for is a plea bargain, or that the SEC made a cleri…

”meant to deceive investors”

That’s not necessarily true, and, I guess, what his lawyers will contest. I’m not a lawyer, but I guess that whether there was an intent to deceive can make a difference in sentencing, just as it is with murder vs voluntary manslaughter.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#248

Post by ravenstine »

bilbo0s wrote: post #157
ravenstine wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(removed)

> A world where your entire life has to be squeaky clean in order to achieve anything above-average is not one I want to live in... We always lived in that world, it's only extent of the checks that have changed. Outside of a national security context, a background check in 1950 entailed an inquiry with the local constabulary and citizenry about your character. Maybe a cursory check to make sure you were current on y…

> We always lived in that world, it's only extent of the checks that have changed.

Yes, that's what I do agree and that's basically what I meant.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#249

Post by krapp »

pastor_elm wrote: post #220
krapp wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are responsible for the success of these companies in the same way cells are responsible for the formation of a human being. So... entirely responsible?

Yo missed my point. Nobody walks around thanking their skin cells for existing.

Your point seemed to be that engineers are "a dime a dozen," yet I doubt any "dime-a-dozen" engineer or group of engineers could have accomplished what Tesla's or SpaceX's engineers have.

But let's answer a question you posed in your comment: Why couldn't all those engineers build a cost effective reusable rocket system before Musk came along? Or how about an electric car that could go 400 miles on a battery charge?

They could have, because obviously, they did. Their collective expertise is what made that possible. Elon Musk didn't just draw up all the plans and send it to them to make happen. Elon Musk, however, could never in a million years have done it alone.

So I didn't miss your point, I disregarded it. Those dime a dozen engineers are far more important than Elon.

> Nobody walks around thanking their skin cells for existing.

Well, skin cells are not human beings, so comparing human beings to skin cells is... disturbing at best.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#250

Post by rleigh »

drawkbox wrote: post #167
rleigh wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine they are hard to run. But they don't require "genius" to run, they require people skilled in process management, supply chain operations, assembly automation and the rest. The stuff all the other big car manufacturers have been doing for decades. All stuff that Musk doesn't have a background in. What makes Tesla unique in this respect, and Musk so essential to the operations? I'd argue nothing at all, other…

Elon Musk survived the Great Recession when other car companies needed bailouts, that is pretty good line item. Ford probably would have needed one as well if Ford's didn't still run it. Elon is also an engineer first, that is needed at innovative companies, not some metric focused MBA C-level executive just looking to cash out. Musk actually cares about what he is building and has done a smashing job considering the…

When your company is a tiny player, needing bailouts is largely irrelevant. Tesla didn't have anything like the risk and exposure which required the bailouts. Most of the major manufacturers didn't require bailouts either…

Your comments regarding being "made with love" doesn't square with all the other articles I've read recently regarding the poor fit and finish of new Teslas. They are having problems scaling up, and it looks like quality took a hit as a result.

Running a large scale industrial manufacturing operation means extensive delegation. Those "metric-focussed" executives actually have an important role to play at this scale. Product design and engineering happen well before scaling up for production. The production side is all about supply chains, efficient assembly and QA. No one should be changing the design at that point; however talented Musk might be as an engineer, I can't see him specifically having much to bring to the table for sorting out manufacturing issues. (I have worked doing QA in an industrial setting. ISO 9001, six-sigma and all the rest do start to have a point when you are working at scale and want to guarantee quality, throughput, efficiency, customer deadlines etc.) Tesla is bringing nothing new to the table on these fronts that I have seen.

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