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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#221

Post by bduerst »

drawkbox wrote: post #31
ivraatiems wrote: post #15

A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

If Elon Musk is the reason Tesla goes bankrupt, does it matter?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#222

Post by aquadrop »

djsumdog wrote: post #93
henryfjordan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this a "joke"? Does a gaggle of teenagers running into a movie theater and yelling "fire!" constitute a joke? People might get seriously injured in the ensuing chaos. The same is (almost) true here, people lost money because of a tweet that was Musk was prohibited from making by law. There need to be consequences.

Please don't use the "fire in theatre" argument. It is one of the most misused arguments because yelling fire in a theatre, under Schenck v. United States, is (sorta) protected speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...

Not everyone lives in USA.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#223

Post by kazen44 »

drawkbox wrote: post #167
rleigh wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine they are hard to run. But they don't require "genius" to run, they require people skilled in process management, supply chain operations, assembly automation and the rest. The stuff all the other big car manufacturers have been doing for decades. All stuff that Musk doesn't have a background in. What makes Tesla unique in this respect, and Musk so essential to the operations? I'd argue nothing at all, other…

Elon Musk survived the Great Recession when other car companies needed bailouts, that is pretty good line item. Ford probably would have needed one as well if Ford's didn't still run it. Elon is also an engineer first, that is needed at innovative companies, not some metric focused MBA C-level executive just looking to cash out. Musk actually cares about what he is building and has done a smashing job considering the…

> Elon Musk survived the Great Recession when other car companies needed bailouts, that is pretty good line item. Ford probably would have needed one as well if Ford's didn't still run it.

This has little to do with producing cars, and more to do with (financial) management. (Also, most major european car makers survived the great recession just fine).

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#224

Post by stcredzero »

threeseed wrote: post #172
stcredzero wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Apple products different now that Jobs are gone? Yes. Jobs as local despot acted as a curb to bad decisions. Jobs had a vision which acted as a countervailing force to keep Apple from being completely sucked into being a money grubbing luxury goods company. the core people that make and design all their overpriced, planned obsolescence devices are still there, often uncredited, while everyone else likes to focus…

This is just revisionist history and completely wrong. Steve Jobs pretty much set Apple on the premium goods track when he returned. The iMac, iPod, iPad, iPhone were all developed under his watch and all were premium priced. Apple has pushed the margins higher but that's only because the market can absorb it. Computing is more central to people's lives and they are willing to pay a premium for a good experience.

This is just revisionist history and completely wrong.

Steve Jobs pretty much set Apple on the premium goods track when he returned

You are revising what I actually said, and about that you are completely wrong. I never denied that Jobs set Apple on the premium goods track. However, he was one of the major forces keeping it from devolving into being only a peddler of luxury goods.

Tech innovation does better with good margins, and good margins come easier for more upscale products. But doing that is better as an adjunct which increases your margins, and winds up empty as an end to itself.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#226

Post by [deleted] »

pastor_elm wrote: post #202
djsumdog wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hope the company itself would be fine. I really hate this idea of the grand visionary. A good friend of mine who is a mechanical engineer despises Musk. I listened to a bit of his Joe Regan interview and when Regan asked him how he has the time to do all of the things he does, there are smoke jokes about him being an alien, but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the tho…

>but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the thousands of people in his organizations that actually do the work. Engineers are a dime a dozen. They are responsible for the success of these companies in the same way cells are responsible for the formation of a human being. Why couldn't all those engineers build a cost effective reusable rocket system before Musk came along? O…

[deleted]

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#227

Post by draw_down »

treis wrote: post #84

>According to Musk, he calculated the $420 price per share based on a 20% premium over that day’s closing share price because he thought 20% was a “standard premium” in going-private transactions. This calculation resulted in a price of $419, and Musk stated tha the rounded the price up to $420 because he had recently learned about the number’s significance in marijuana culture and thought his girlfriend “would find…

Smart people can act in very stupid ways.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#228

Post by MPSimmons »

dragonwriter wrote: post #208
Rooster61 wrote: post #192

I very much hate to see this. Not for Musk's sake, as he has been pretty much asking for something like this to happen. I hate it because of the damage it will do to Tesla and SpaceX when he's likely banned from leading a company. Tesla's not exactly lighting the world on fire in terms of potential long term success, but SpaceX really has been doing well in recent years. The fact that they are already refurbishing so…

> I hate it because of the damage it will do to Tesla and SpaceX when he's likely banned from leading a company. He would only be banned from leading a public company; SpaceX is still private (and, heck, maybe he could realize his plan of taking Tesla private, too.) So, SpaceX wouldn't be directly effected.

Well, the stock is definitely on sale compared to where it was when he made that statement, so maybe!

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#229

Post by stcredzero »

ForrestN wrote: post #182
stcredzero wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Apple products different now that Jobs are gone? Yes. Jobs as local despot acted as a curb to bad decisions. Jobs had a vision which acted as a countervailing force to keep Apple from being completely sucked into being a money grubbing luxury goods company. the core people that make and design all their overpriced, planned obsolescence devices are still there, often uncredited, while everyone else likes to focus…

Your argument is fundamentally unconvincing because you're using unsubstantiated, subjective claims that anyone can disagree with and thereby nullify. While you say that Jobs curbed "bad" decisions, and that now the company is "money grubbing," and that he alone kept Apple going in the "right" direction, you don't explain why you think so. Someone could say the opposite (I don't have an opinion). For example, far mor…

Your argument is fundamentally unconvincing because you're using unsubstantiated, subjective claims that anyone can disagree with and thereby nullify.

https://m.facebook.com/JamesHBlack/posts/10156560054277932

so there is some evidence that "bad" product decisions from your perspective are actually good product decisions in the eyes of Apple's customers.

Where did I ever say that being luxury was a bad product decision? I never did. It raises margins. That's a very good thing for a company. However, it's empty and hollow as a driver of new product innovation.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#230

Post by Animats »

baxtr wrote: post #203
SkyMarshal wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think Apple products are any different without Jobs, the problem is they’re nothing new either. With Jobs you knew he loved and lived technology and was always looking for cool new things to do with it. Most of his product launches did just that and brought some excitement about possibilities. Current Apple products are meticulously, exactingly designed and built, but they’re losing the excitement and expecta…

Why would you say that for example the Apple Watch is "nothing new"? Or: what is the difference between jumping from an iPhone to an iPad (considered as genius by Jobs) and jumping from a fingerprint ID to a 3D face recognition.

Why would you say that for example the Apple Watch is "nothing new"?

Pebble.

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