SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#161

Post by the_rosentotter » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #68

chollida1 wrote: post #6

This comment I made a few weeks ago is coming alot closer to the truth than I would have expected. I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016250#18016292 SpaceX is doing well, Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company. All Elon had to do was keep his head down and n…

I'd hope the company itself would be fine. I really hate this idea of the grand visionary. A good friend of mine who is a mechanical engineer despises Musk. I listened to a bit of his Joe Regan interview and when Regan asked him how he has the time to do all of the things he does, there are smoke jokes about him being an alien, but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the tho…

> I don't doubt he's capable of doing that with his background

Which background is that? He has an undergraduate degree in economics and a bachelor's degree in physics.

I respect the guy but he clearly puts a lot into managing his image. As a relevant example, he used to claim to have been in the Ph.D. program at Stanford, but had to retract that (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to find that on Google).

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#162

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:17 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #111

ckastner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. What if Tesla's progress wasn't because of Musk, but in spite of Musk? He's chased away dozens of key people and his intolerance for criticism is well known. Apart from attracting cash, do you really think his contribution to the operation was that significant? > I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going…

> What if Tesla's progress want because of Musk, but in spite of Musk No way that's true. No way. If you believe that then you must also believe SpaceX and him leading the company to create re-usable rockets was also just a fluke. So Musk somehow just stumbled upon a highly successful, innovative, and cost-effective private rocket company, while also stumbling upon the first new American company to survive (for now,…

Elon Musk doesn't run the day-to-day at SpaceX. That's been someone else, Gwynne Shotwell, for several years, and everyone credits her with getting SpaceX on track and meeting its contractual deadlines--which was something it wasn't managing when Musk was in charge.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#163

Post by dkhenry » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:17 PM UTC

tareqak wrote: post #4

What would be the argument in his defense?

The statute they are charging him with says he has to have made an untrue statement of a "material" fact. So his defense is what he said was not an untrue statement of a "material" fact. You could make the argument that his discussions with the Saudi's let him to believe that what he was saying was factual.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#164

Post by mschuster91 » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:17 PM UTC

Probably he's gonna draw out an email by the Saudi or some other state fund declaring they're willing to take over enough Tesla stocks for effectively taking Tesla private (gotta leave some stock for Musk and employees, I guess).

For what it's worth I actually expect something alike this, the Saudi (and other Arabian) states are trying to convert their monies into something that does not depend on oil since years. Tesla and every other car company with a decent EV portfolio are and will be perfect targets for that strategy.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#165

Post by jonknee » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

Arzh wrote: post #120

What if it was true, what if he was working with a group to secure funding to take the company private? Would that make the claim that he was 'deceiving' the investors invalid? I don't really know anything about this kinda thing but I would think if he was just saying that he was working towards that goal but deiced not to do it wouldn't be 'deceiving.'

Well the SEC has access to Tesla's internal documents and came to the conclusion that he did not do these things. It makes some quite detailed claims and is worth reading:

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-2...

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#166

Post by jiveturkey » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

rifung wrote: post #119

"The suit seeks an order from a judge barring Musk from serving as an officer or director of a public company, a request often made in SEC lawsuits, as well as unspecified monetary penalties." Does this imply that they want to remove him from being CEO and from the board of directors?

It's not an implication. It directly states that.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#167

Post by drawkbox » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

rleigh wrote: post #154

drawkbox wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously car companies are hard to run. Though internet companies aren't the best at cash flow management either, it is more about getting the market / customers then the profit. I think innovation is excusable for revenue/profits for some time. Starting an electric car ONLY car company is even harder than having it as part of an existing car company like Mercedes is doing well with. The shorts are mainly trying to…

I imagine they are hard to run. But they don't require "genius" to run, they require people skilled in process management, supply chain operations, assembly automation and the rest. The stuff all the other big car manufacturers have been doing for decades. All stuff that Musk doesn't have a background in. What makes Tesla unique in this respect, and Musk so essential to the operations? I'd argue nothing at all, other…

Elon Musk survived the Great Recession when other car companies needed bailouts, that is pretty good line item. Ford probably would have needed one as well if Ford's didn't still run it.

Elon is also an engineer first, that is needed at innovative companies, not some metric focused MBA C-level executive just looking to cash out. Musk actually cares about what he is building and has done a smashing job considering the pressure in my opinion. Tesla is made with love, a car/product people want, not just for the short term numbers.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#168

Post by rayiner » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #84

>According to Musk, he calculated the $420 price per share based on a 20% premium over that day’s closing share price because he thought 20% was a “standard premium” in going-private transactions. This calculation resulted in a price of $419, and Musk stated tha the rounded the price up to $420 because he had recently learned about the number’s significance in marijuana culture and thought his girlfriend “would find…

It's better for him if it's an obvious marijuana reference. That way he can argue it was a joke that no reasonable investor would have relied upon.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#169

Post by foobarbazetc » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:19 PM UTC

Life lesson: never tweet.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#170

Post by SkyMarshal » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 9:19 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #127

djsumdog wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hope the company itself would be fine. I really hate this idea of the grand visionary. A good friend of mine who is a mechanical engineer despises Musk. I listened to a bit of his Joe Regan interview and when Regan asked him how he has the time to do all of the things he does, there are smoke jokes about him being an alien, but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the tho…

Are Apple products different now that Jobs are gone? Yes. Jobs as local despot acted as a curb to bad decisions. Jobs had a vision which acted as a countervailing force to keep Apple from being completely sucked into being a money grubbing luxury goods company. the core people that make and design all their overpriced, planned obsolescence devices are still there, often uncredited, while everyone else likes to focus…

I don’t think Apple products are any different without Jobs, the problem is they’re nothing new either. With Jobs you knew he loved and lived technology and was always looking for cool new things to do with it. Most of his product launches did just that and brought some excitement about possibilities.

Current Apple products are meticulously, exactingly designed and built, but they’re losing the excitement and expectation of something truly new and original that Jobs brought. That’s the big difference I think a visionary leader can make.

Musk is doing the same thing with electric cars and space. Tesla and SpaceX could survive without him for a time, and since they’re very different industries than consumer electronics, maybe even thrive under a Tim Cook-like operator par excellence. But no guarantee.