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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#111

Post by mtgx »

ckastner wrote: post #88
drawkbox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

> If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. What if Tesla's progress wasn't because of Musk, but in spite of Musk? He's chased away dozens of key people and his intolerance for criticism is well known. Apart from attracting cash, do you really think his contribution to the operation was that significant? > I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going…

> What if Tesla's progress want because of Musk, but in spite of Musk

No way that's true. No way. If you believe that then you must also believe SpaceX and him leading the company to create re-usable rockets was also just a fluke.

So Musk somehow just stumbled upon a highly successful, innovative, and cost-effective private rocket company, while also stumbling upon the first new American company to survive (for now, and as long as it has) in the car market in 100 years and also one that happens to build EVs from scratch.

Musk must have one hell of a luck to keep stumbling upon these sort of companies that "could have succeeded even without him."

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#112

Post by toomuchtodo »

gsnedders wrote: post #67
vkou wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, the product is not good, yet. They've yet to ship a $35,000 car, they've yet to hit their production goals, they've yet to justify their sky-high valuation, and their current build quality is below what one would expect for a $50,000 car. This doesn't mean that failing to fix those problems will kill Tesla. It may, however, cause a large drop in stock price, massive losses for shareholders at large, and…

That sounds like what they need is someone like Tim Cook: someone with a background in operations management. Like, when I step back and look at Tesla's current challenges, they have two big ones: delivered products to meet demand and improving their driver assistance/autonomous driving offerings.

Which is why Jerome Guillen was promoted to President of Automotive [+] weeks ago.

"Jerome Guillen has been promoted to President, Automotive, reporting directly to me. In his new role, Jerome will oversee all automotive operations and program management, as well as coordinate our extensive automotive supply chain. Jerome has made major contributions and acquired deep knowledge of Tesla’s operations over the past eight years at our company, from being the first Model S Program Manager to managing all vehicle programs, then all vehicle engineering and worldwide sales & service. Recently, Jerome played a critical role in ramping Model 3 production, leading what almost all thought was impossible: creation of an entire high-volume General Assembly line for Model 3 in a matter of weeks. Before coming to Tesla, Jerome was responsible for creating and running the most successful semi truck program in history at Daimler’s Freightliner division."

[+] https://www.tesla.com/blog/company-update

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#113

Post by adventured »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #90
ryandrake wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with someone else stepping in to run things? Why is E.M. the one person out of 7 billion on Earth who can possibly run the company? People said the same thing about Jobs, but here Apple is, still printing money.

I think the primary fear is that he’d be replaced with a visionless drone and the company would cease to push any kind of bar, sliding into the same sort of profitable stagnancy found at every other American carmaker. The impact would be reduced now that the big guys are finally starting to take full electric seriously, but the impact would still be there. Without Tesla’s constant pressure I could see full BEV adopti…

There's already a solution for what you're describing.

She's running SpaceX. They're already doing it there.

You make Musk the product lead or equivalent, chief visionary. The CEO is a specialist focused on operations, manufacturing. You don't need the CEO to be the chief visionary so long as you have Musk in the company. There's no good reason he needs to be overseeing every detail of manufacturing, there are people far better at that than he is.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#114

Post by [deleted] »

henryfjordan wrote: post #49
burke wrote: post #30

On one hand, the $420 tweet was just blatantly obviously a bad idea and he should have known better. On the other hand, it feels... strange somehow that a joke (if a slightly deadpan one) has consequences this severe. It affected the markets and it obviously wasn't without real-world consequences in any case, but something about this all just feels a little off somehow.

Why is this a "joke"? Does a gaggle of teenagers running into a movie theater and yelling "fire!" constitute a joke? People might get seriously injured in the ensuing chaos. The same is (almost) true here, people lost money because of a tweet that was Musk was prohibited from making by law. There need to be consequences.

[deleted]

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#115

Post by henryfjordan »

djsumdog wrote: post #93
henryfjordan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this a "joke"? Does a gaggle of teenagers running into a movie theater and yelling "fire!" constitute a joke? People might get seriously injured in the ensuing chaos. The same is (almost) true here, people lost money because of a tweet that was Musk was prohibited from making by law. There need to be consequences.

Please don't use the "fire in theatre" argument. It is one of the most misused arguments because yelling fire in a theatre, under Schenck v. United States, is (sorta) protected speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...

The article you quoted directly contradicts your assertion.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

> The Court, in a unanimous opinion written by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., held that Schenck's criminal conviction was constitutional

> the First Amendment did not protect speech encouraging men to resist induction

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

> The Court held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#116

Post by adventured »

dawhizkid wrote: post #16
Cshelton wrote: post #13

I'm willing to bet the only thing that will come of this is a fine and a slap on the wrist.

...and irrepairable loss of investor trust

That's not going to happen unless the sales stop growing. As things are right now, they still can't make their vehicles fast enough. Demand is outstripping supply.

Until that changes, investors will overlook a lot.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#118

Post by computerex »

drawkbox wrote: post #55
arawde wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not shorted because of its mission, its shorted because of the negative cash flow. Musks' public persona doesn't exactly give off the aura of a man who has his companies operating expenses and profitability under control.

Obviously car companies are hard to run. Though internet companies aren't the best at cash flow management either, it is more about getting the market / customers then the profit. I think innovation is excusable for revenue/profits for some time. Starting an electric car ONLY car company is even harder than having it as part of an existing car company like Mercedes is doing well with. The shorts are mainly trying to…

Do you have any evidence for the claims you are making? Elon Musk has done plenty on his own to be attacked.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#119

Post by rifung »

"The suit seeks an order from a judge barring Musk from serving as an officer or director of a public company, a request often made in SEC lawsuits, as well as unspecified monetary penalties."

Does this imply that they want to remove him from being CEO and from the board of directors?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#120

Post by Arzh »

What if it was true, what if he was working with a group to secure funding to take the company private? Would that make the claim that he was 'deceiving' the investors invalid? I don't really know anything about this kinda thing but I would think if he was just saying that he was working towards that goal but deiced not to do it wouldn't be 'deceiving.'
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