this thread seems to have "won": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18088118
It did! But it seems fair to go with the earlier submission, so we did.
SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
91–100 of 884 posts
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#92On one hand, the $420 tweet was just blatantly obviously a bad idea and he should have known better. On the other hand, it feels... strange somehow that a joke (if a slightly deadpan one) has consequences this severe. It affected the markets and it obviously wasn't without real-world consequences in any case, but something about this all just feels a little off somehow.
I wonder if they will be able to demonstrate that any damage was actually done. The $420 tweet had a reverse effect in the end, not what most people would expect from such a tweet.
It has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread that several people holding short positions exited automatically when the stock price temporarily spiked. They were definitely harmed, and in fact are already suing in a separate case.
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#93On one hand, the $420 tweet was just blatantly obviously a bad idea and he should have known better. On the other hand, it feels... strange somehow that a joke (if a slightly deadpan one) has consequences this severe. It affected the markets and it obviously wasn't without real-world consequences in any case, but something about this all just feels a little off somehow.
Why is this a "joke"? Does a gaggle of teenagers running into a movie theater and yelling "fire!" constitute a joke? People might get seriously injured in the ensuing chaos. The same is (almost) true here, people lost money because of a tweet that was Musk was prohibited from making by law. There need to be consequences.
Please don't use the "fire in theatre" argument. It is one of the most misused arguments because yelling fire in a theatre, under Schenck v. United States, is (sorta) protected speech:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz ). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much p…
And yet Gates is gone, and Microsoft is still here. And Jobs is gone, but Apple is still here. As the saying goes, the graveyards are full of indispensable men.
Is Apple still there? Let's be realistic, it's a fraction of what it used to be. From a creative standpoint, it's catatonic.
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#95On one hand, the $420 tweet was just blatantly obviously a bad idea and he should have known better. On the other hand, it feels... strange somehow that a joke (if a slightly deadpan one) has consequences this severe. It affected the markets and it obviously wasn't without real-world consequences in any case, but something about this all just feels a little off somehow.
I wonder if they will be able to demonstrate that any damage was actually done. The $420 tweet had a reverse effect in the end, not what most people would expect from such a tweet.
If I, a not-inexperienced investor, briefly wondered if I should by a few more lots of TSLA based on the tweet, it is not unfathomable that someone actually clicked the “buy” button somewhere near the peak. In short, yeah, it would be trivial to demonstrate damage. Someone was buying those pricey shares before the drop.
EDIT: down $31 in after hours, hell, I’m thinking about suing. :-P
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz ). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much p…
And yet Gates is gone, and Microsoft is still here. And Jobs is gone, but Apple is still here. As the saying goes, the graveyards are full of indispensable men.
If Jobs hadn't of gone back to Apple in '97 after being fired in '85, they wouldn't be here today. Jobs was their last hope after Sculley made them mediocre. Apple was down to relying on a 150m investment from Microsoft in the late 90s (Aug 1997), that they probably only got because of Jobs [1]. I'd also argue everything that Jobs had created at NeXTSTEP became Apple and saved them [2]. The technology made it all the way into iPhone, you can see it in their libs still in Objective-C with the NS prefix [2]. Interestingly Jobs built successes in NeXTSTEP and Pixar while he was away from Apple for a decade, just like Musk has other companies.
It could be argued Ballmer almost killed Microsoft, but Bill Gates has had influence in the company all along on the board up until February 4, 2014 as the chairman of Microsoft. Microsoft returned to developer/engineering focused with Satya Nadella was made CEO in February 2014 after the marketing/bizdev focused Ballmer era that nearly made them irrelevant, and Nadella has turned it around entirely back to developer roots.
Tesla is an engineer first, I see that as way more beneficial than some operations or lifetime MBA / C-level executive running it, it will take the life right out of Tesla just like Baller at Microsoft or Sculley at Apple.
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/steve-jobs-and-bill-gates-wh...
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#97YESSSSSSSS
sic em boys
Now my opinion will be supported by the full faith and credit of the United States of America
Gamma team activated. Its an options reference. Its always been about the Greeks.
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#98A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…
Note that Tesla requires a super-majority vote for major changes, and with Elon's ownership (as well as insiders who may toe the line) it would take an almost 90% vote.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/how-elon-musk-con...
(Obviously the SEC can take action that supersedes those rules)
Even if Musk is removed, his votes give him an extraordinary amount of control over Tesla's day to day operations, until they change the supermajority rule (which in itself would require a vote subject to the rule)
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#99A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…
Agree. I want Elon's companies to succeed. I don't care if Elon himself is part of the equation, and it's starting to look like they might be better off if he is not.
Either way, he committed something between gross negligence and fraud. He should be held accountable and isn't above the law just because some of us like the work his companies are doing.
Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal
#100A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…
He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz ). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much p…
2029: Elon Musk is hired back to lead Tesla after the board decides the brand, having been diluted over the past 10 years and the stock down to pennies, is in serious danger. Musk meanwhile had been focusing on SpaceX and laying the foundation for the first Mars colonization.
2031: Shortly after his return to Tesla, Musk introduces the first hovercar.
2035: SpaceX and Tesla merge
2042: TeslaX solarshuttles frequently take multi-year tourist visits to Mars and Europa
2047: TeslaX undergoes a hostile takeover by Amazon for 8.7T in stock (hey, who doesn't love a twist ending?)