SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#81

Post by buboard » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

rhema wrote: post #53

ivraatiems wrote: post #15

A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…

He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz ). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much p…

The difference with Gates and Jobs is Tesla has not delivered, i.e. it has not become profitable enough to guarantee success in the future. At this point he's indispensable. (There is also the thought that without him Tesla does not have an advantage vs cheaper competitors from all around the world)

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#82

Post by burke » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

henryfjordan wrote: post #49

burke wrote: post #30

On one hand, the $420 tweet was just blatantly obviously a bad idea and he should have known better. On the other hand, it feels... strange somehow that a joke (if a slightly deadpan one) has consequences this severe. It affected the markets and it obviously wasn't without real-world consequences in any case, but something about this all just feels a little off somehow.

Why is this a "joke"? Does a gaggle of teenagers running into a movie theater and yelling "fire!" constitute a joke? People might get seriously injured in the ensuing chaos. The same is (almost) true here, people lost money because of a tweet that was Musk was prohibited from making by law. There need to be consequences.

There's no amusement in yelling "fire!" in a theatre unless you enjoy watching people panic.

I can imagine this striking him as "haha, wouldn't it be funny if..." and tweeting it out without thinking. I don't think that makes it okay, but it's easy to imagine it not being motivated by the same psychopathic intention as yelling "fire!" in a theatre.

I'm not defending his behaviour; I guess part of my unease here comes from how a lot of people treat twitter as an externalized stream of consciousness, and how that has a strange interaction, especially with things like SEC rules.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#83

Post by mtgx » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #63

rhema wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz ). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much p…

It's big, but is it irrecoverable? Because the current situation might be.

Fire Musk and the board could also risk a situation similar to Apple's board firing Steve Jobs.

Musk is taking too many chances with too many things, often unnecessarily, but without him Tesla could be trampled by the big carmakers in the coming years in the EV market.

Who at Tesla will still want to add rocket alloy to their cars to make them the safest ever cars? Chances are whatever new CEO they hire will see that as a huge cost-cutting opportunity to be "more in line with the rest of the industry."

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#84

Post by treis » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

>According to Musk, he calculated the $420 price per share based on a 20% premium over that day’s closing share price because he thought 20% was a “standard premium” in going-private transactions. This calculation resulted in a price of $419, and Musk stated tha the rounded the price up to $420 because he had recently learned about the number’s significance in marijuana culture and thought his girlfriend “would find it funny, which admittedly is not a great reason to pick a price.”

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4950588-SEC-v-Elon-M... (Page 7-8)

Wow, what a dumb thing to do and even dumber to admit to it.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#85

Post by lorenzorhoades » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #54

drawkbox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

I don't agree. I don't believe in the "key man" clause. Apple wasn't over when Jobs passed. Microsoft wasn't over when Gates left. But supposing I did agree - > I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major…

>Microsoft wasn't over when Gates died? When did Gates die?

On a more serious note, they left after significant pass over and forsight that they were stepping down. They were both profitable, and they were not forced to step down. When Steve Jobs left the first time he was forced to, Apple almost went out of business.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#86

Post by beambot » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

dawhizkid wrote: post #16

Cshelton wrote: post #13

I'm willing to bet the only thing that will come of this is a fine and a slap on the wrist.

...and irrepairable loss of investor trust

I am an investor, and I have not lost trust (temporarily degraded perhaps, but certainly not irreparably!).

I also take the long view; Elon is instrumental to the long-term outcome for Tesla, our species, and our planet.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#87

Post by kgwgk » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #62

ivraatiems wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion: We (as a society and a country) need Tesla to succeed. Tesla can't succeed with Elon Musk as CEO at this point. So Elon should be removed.

Owning about 12k shares of TSLA, having followed the company closely since inception (when it was ran by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning), I can't see Tesla succeeding without Musk. It'll end up acquired, or as a boutique manufacturer like Ferrari. Tesla's value is Musk's determination. Still, he needs to choose his actions more wisely, clearly.

> It'll end up acquired,

Maybe. The main question is whether it will happen before or after bankruptcy (chapter 11 reorganization).

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#88

Post by ckastner » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #31

ivraatiems wrote: post #15

A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

> If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over.

What if Tesla's progress wasn't because of Musk, but in spite of Musk? He's chased away dozens of key people and his intolerance for criticism is well known. Apart from attracting cash, do you really think his contribution to the operation was that significant?

> I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack.

Working towards a worthwhile cause does not mean nobody can call you out on bullshit. And he bullshits a lot.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#89

Post by enraged_camel » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:51 PM UTC

instaheat wrote: post #56

....well, fuck. I had hoped like any of us rooting for Elon Inc. that this wouldn't happen. I truly hope it amounts to a slap on the wrist because I want Tesla to succeed. I'll show my support with my wallet as soon as I am able.

Elon's judgment has been compromised by intense stress combined by lack of sleep and he is now a detriment to Tesla. For the past several months he has been a complete PR disaster. If you want Tesla to succeed as I do, you should support his ouster.

If Tesla can't survive without Elon, then maybe it doesn't deserve to. A single point of failure that is one person is not a sustainable business.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#90

Post by kitsunesoba » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 8:51 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #46

drawkbox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

What’s wrong with someone else stepping in to run things? Why is E.M. the one person out of 7 billion on Earth who can possibly run the company? People said the same thing about Jobs, but here Apple is, still printing money.

I think the primary fear is that he’d be replaced with a visionless drone and the company would cease to push any kind of bar, sliding into the same sort of profitable stagnancy found at every other American carmaker.

The impact would be reduced now that the big guys are finally starting to take full electric seriously, but the impact would still be there. Without Tesla’s constant pressure I could see full BEV adoption being delayed by 5 years or more.