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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#51

Post by pdeuchler »

Cshelton wrote: post #29
dawhizkid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and irrepairable loss of investor trust

I don't believe so. I have been a Tesla owner and investor for a long time now. I know where Elon comes from, what missions and goals he has stated for years now, and what he is trying to accomplish. I promise you, Elon legitimately thought there would be an opportunity to go private again. He's said he wanted to do so in the past, and even has said they never wanted to go public, but were left with no choice. I don'…

> I promise you, Elon legitimately thought there would be an opportunity to go private again.

According to the hard facts the SEC is presenting this is patently false, there was absolutely no reason for Musk to "legitimately" think that.

> even has said they never wanted to go public, but were left with no choice.

Also just not even close to true. Elon would have been canned and Tesla would have been bankrupt by now if they didn't go public. If by "left with no choice" means "structured the company so that only a public IPO could sustain it and allow for the path he wanted" then I guess you're right?

See: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-17/elon-musk...

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#52

Post by pslam »

dasil003 wrote: post #41
ivraatiems wrote: post #15

A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…

I tend to agree, but it’s a double-edged sword. Without Musk’s cult of personality it’s unclear whether sufficient capital can be secured to bridge Tesla to a sustainable future. Of course given his recent behavior it may not matter either way.

Spare a thought for all the other perfectly reasonable, and achievable goals which companies did not achieve, because the funding they needed went to Elon Musk companies instead.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#53

Post by rhema »

ivraatiems wrote: post #15

A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…

He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much perceived valuation does Musk create? 20%, 50% of the company? Hard to say, but I bet it's a big number.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#54

Post by ivraatiems »

drawkbox wrote: post #31
ivraatiems wrote: post #15

A short while ago (per my comment history), I asked whether Elon Musk should remain as CEO of Tesla. I think, for my part, the answer is clearly no. He might be brilliant, he has undeniably had a hand in creating something awesome with Tesla and SpaceX's technology, but he's now a danger to the very thing he helped build. This is just one of the lawsuits filed against him or Tesla in recent weeks that have him as the…

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

I don't agree. I don't believe in the "key man" clause. Apple wasn't over when Jobs passed. Microsoft wasn't over when Gates left.

But supposing I did agree -

> I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize)

It can't be argued. But their CEO is a self-aggrandizing buffoon who is hurting himself and the company, and now, because the board couldn't or wouldn't stop him, the SEC will. I don't like it, either. I really honestly want Tesla to succeed.

Elon is preventing them from doing that now. If there's any hope for them to survive, in my opinion, it is without him. Even if that's riskier.

Edit: Accidentally killed Bill Gates :(. Sorry Bill!

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#55

Post by drawkbox »

arawde wrote: post #34
drawkbox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Elon Musk is removed as CEO at Tesla, Tesla is over. I find it curious that an innovative American company pushing to help our carbon problem by going electric is so lambasted, shorted, constantly under attack. It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize) Personally I like when American companies succeed a…

It's not shorted because of its mission, its shorted because of the negative cash flow. Musks' public persona doesn't exactly give off the aura of a man who has his companies operating expenses and profitability under control.

Obviously car companies are hard to run.

Though internet companies aren't the best at cash flow management either, it is more about getting the market / customers then the profit. I think innovation is excusable for revenue/profits for some time.

Starting an electric car ONLY car company is even harder than having it as part of an existing car company like Mercedes is doing well with.

The shorts are mainly trying to kill Tesla and coming from the oil, gas, other auto companies most of all. Lots of games are played with car companies (see VW short squeeze a historically big one) because they can't react as fast as it is hard work. I think the shorts have been not just focused on profitability but to drive out the competitive threat, the shorts have also been attacking Elon Musk non-stop.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#57

Post by ivraatiems »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48
arawde wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not shorted because of its mission, its shorted because of the negative cash flow. Musks' public persona doesn't exactly give off the aura of a man who has his companies operating expenses and profitability under control.

So, I get it. This is how capitalism is supposed to work. But I don't think anyone is going to care about the wealth of these short sellers when the climate is irreversibly changed. China is smart. They don't fuck around with tax incentives and other silly market manipulators. They use central policy planning to drive forward renewables and battery electric vehicles at nation state scale, and it's a damn shame the Un…

In my opinion:

We (as a society and a country) need Tesla to succeed.

Tesla can't succeed with Elon Musk as CEO at this point.

So Elon should be removed.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#58

Post by matwood »

burke wrote: post #30

On one hand, the $420 tweet was just blatantly obviously a bad idea and he should have known better. On the other hand, it feels... strange somehow that a joke (if a slightly deadpan one) has consequences this severe. It affected the markets and it obviously wasn't without real-world consequences in any case, but something about this all just feels a little off somehow.

Read the complaint. It was not a single tweet, but a string of them leading investors to think a deal was all but done at that price. Musk's Twitter account was also registered with the SEC as an official channel for TSLA information. He fraudulently manipulated the stock. At this point, all that's left is negotiating punishment.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#59

Post by olivermarks »

ravenstine wrote: post #10
NN88 wrote: post #5

Twitter is like keeping a loaded gun in the house with kids. Politicians, Business leaders, community influencers... BEWARE

(removed)

@ravenstine's comment about deleting past tweets is thought provoking - I use to use Twitter a lot but abandoned it years ago. Might be a good idea to check I didn't say anything too many naive and stupid things that I've forgotten about

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#60

Post by quirkot »

twblalock wrote: post #36
nigealj wrote: post #25

This is a serious deal. The rest of the year is going to be a real test for Tesla! It'll be real interesting to see if they can rebound from this. I wonder if the Tesla board is thinking of doing an Uber and replace Musk with a more calmer executive! Wouldn't be surprised if he gets fired after this.

> I wonder if the Tesla board is thinking of doing an Uber and replace Musk with a more calmer executive! Wouldn't be surprised if he gets fired after this. I would be. They have stood by him so far, this isn't going to push them over the edge. Besides, who would they replace him with? If the SEC fines him, he'll pay the fine and get on with his life.

Unless they ban him from being an executive at a publicly traded company
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