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Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

seattletimes.com

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Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#31

Post by sievebrain »

AlexandrB wrote: post #20
ttty wrote: post #9

Can anyone make a summary. I tried to skim quickly but I couldn't see any real reason. Thank you

I can't tell if this is meant to be parody. The first essay is a bit high-level, but the second lays out some pretty specific, straightforward ways that women get the short end of the stick in the CS field: > It is more common for men to get credit for collaborative work than women, something I experienced when a student wrote in a publication draft that an idea of mine originated with a collaborator — even though pr…

That happens to men all the time too.

Is there anything worth reading in these essays that is genuinely unique to women? Because so far it sounds like damore round two. The only form of unarguable, gender specific discrimination I see in computing is against men.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#32

Post by komali2 »

naasking wrote: post #26
blihp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are definitely a group worth talking to as they can speak first-hand to the difficulties they had getting/staying in the field despite having a strong desire to be there/here. Understanding at least some of what they felt they were up against should make clear the most obvious obstacles that need to be cleared.

> Understanding at least some of what they felt they were up against should make clear the most obvious obstacles that need to be cleared. That doesn't follow. The obstacles the women who succeeded in CS perceive aren't necessarily the same obstacles that drive women who don't succeed in or who don't pursue CS. Sometimes these will overlap, but not necessarily. Clearly the obstacles faced by women who succeeded were…

The obstacles faced by women who succeeded may only have been insufficient to deter them due to a singular factor, that they may be aware of, and can speak towards.

For example, my mother had me at 18, and managed to struggle through college anyway. The reason she was even able to go to school is she had 2 sisters that could take turns babysitting me. If she had 1 sister, it wouldn't have been tenable. If she didn't have a family, same.

So she's very much aware of how difficult it was to get through college, and she readily says "if it weren't for your aunts, I would never have a degree."

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#34

Post by closetohome »

geebee wrote: post #17
lph wrote: post #12

The Seattle Times did a nice job here of presenting viewpoints from women Computer Scientists at different points in their careers.

I agree. I am disappointed with the headline, though. The headline reads: "A UW professor argued that women don’t want to code. What do women computer scientists have to say?" The sub headline reads: "Six women computer scientists from the University of Washington respond to an essay about why women don’t pursue computer science as often as men." In some ways, I think that misrepresenting these headlines can be harmf…

Seems like a dangerous bias for a teacher to have. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy as he makes sure his female students don't rise to the top of the class.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#35

Post by sievebrain »

It's a wider issue with feminists and arguments, not specific to computing. Look at the interview of Jordan Peterson by Cathy Newman. Newman constantly misrepresented and lied about what he was saying in the interview itself, right in front of him, to an absurd level ("are you saying we should model our society after the lobsters"). The whole thing is on YouTube, it's worth watching if you can get through it without stopping in disgust.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#36

Post by daphneokeefe »

s09dfhks wrote: post #3

does anyone have a link that doesnt hit me with "we noticed you're blocking ads"

I simply refreshed the page (in Firefox), and it went away. Well, it was quickly followed by the now-universal popup asking me to subscribe to their newsletter, but that was easily dismissed.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#37

Post by DenverCoder009 »

onion2k wrote: post #23
jolmg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the article, but from your comment it doesn't seem dnautics misunderstood anything. > The women are responding to an essay about why women don't want to code. As women who do want to code they're exactly the right people to ask. How are they "exactly the right people to ask"? They're the exact opposite! Can you see the backwards logic in your comment? If you want to know why someone's doing or not doin…

The original essay that the article is a response to states "Women don't want to code." This article is about how that hypothesis is wrong. It proves that it's wrong by talking to women who do want to code, thereby demonstrating the original essay is incorrect. You couldn't prove such a hypothesis wrong by talking to women who don't want to code.

The original essay states that some women want to code, but only enough to make up 20% of the CS workforce, and that the author believes this isn't a result of discrimination. You can't disprove that hypothesis by talking to women who do want to code.

The argument at hand is if the 20% representation level is a result of discrimination and bias in the field, or something else.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#38

Post by weberc2 »

forapurpose wrote: post #22
geebee wrote: post #14

I read through the responses. It appears all disagree with Stuart Reges. The first few responses disagree, a couple toward the end go farther and discuss the harm that occurs when someone expresses this opinion. One essay does insinuate that perhaps he should lose his leadership position for expressing this opinion. I read all these responses with interest. The only strong opinion I hold is that we should accurately…

The answers were not focused on Dr. Stuart Reges, but on women in computer science. I think it misrepresents the answers and is a distraction (a common one in these discussions) to turn the focus to him, as somehow persecuted, and away from the issue: the access women have to computer science - and the access computer science has to the talent and hard work of half the population.

The post is literally a collection of responses to Dr. Reges, and it’s the misinformation—not the correction thereof—which distracts from the conversation about the access women have to CS.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#39

Post by closetohome »

sievebrain wrote: post #31
AlexandrB wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if this is meant to be parody. The first essay is a bit high-level, but the second lays out some pretty specific, straightforward ways that women get the short end of the stick in the CS field: > It is more common for men to get credit for collaborative work than women, something I experienced when a student wrote in a publication draft that an idea of mine originated with a collaborator — even though pr…

That happens to men all the time too. Is there anything worth reading in these essays that is genuinely unique to women? Because so far it sounds like damore round two. The only form of unarguable, gender specific discrimination I see in computing is against men.

Well known fact that men are all but extinct in tech because of militant feminists.

Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science

#40

Post by blihp »

Someguywhatever wrote: post #25
blihp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are definitely a group worth talking to as they can speak first-hand to the difficulties they had getting/staying in the field despite having a strong desire to be there/here. Understanding at least some of what they felt they were up against should make clear the most obvious obstacles that need to be cleared.

>to the difficulties they had getting/staying in the field despite having a strong desire to be there/here Why isn't it ok that they just aren't interested in it? Women have agency and intelligence and if they want to do something then they can and will do it. I find this whole obsession with "Women in X" to be suspicious because nobody is interested in gender disparities in other fields and starting up "Men in X". S…

It's perfectly fine for women not to be interested in CS or any other field. There's probably a nature/nurture argument to be made for some of the disparity but that doesn't explain all of it. For example, one of the women in the article referenced a boss commenting about her breasts, another talked about being encouraged to drop out so a more deserving man could take her place... that's not lack of interest, that's actively discouraging those who want to be here. Can any men here seriously recall in a professional context a boss referring to their 'package'? Or that they should leave the field so that some more deserving woman could take their place? To me, that's a problem. If a woman doesn't want to be in a field, sure that's their choice. If they're actively discouraged from it, that's a problem.

I've been in more than one professional situation where I was made uncomfortable with how a co-worker or manager was referring to female candidates/co-workers. I'm not talking about good-natured joking around on the job or even flirting, but rather something that in retrospect I can honestly say was discrimination. I also recall that in those situations, I was in no position to do anything about it so it's not like speaking up would have helped... more likely I would have been shortly out of a gig myself.

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