does anyone have a link that doesnt hit me with "we noticed you're blocking ads"
the reader view in FF does a good job with those sites (still loads stuff though)
Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
21–30 of 102 posts
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#22I read through the responses. It appears all disagree with Stuart Reges. The first few responses disagree, a couple toward the end go farther and discuss the harm that occurs when someone expresses this opinion. One essay does insinuate that perhaps he should lose his leadership position for expressing this opinion. I read all these responses with interest. The only strong opinion I hold is that we should accurately…
The answers were not focused on Dr. Stuart Reges, but on women in computer science. I think it misrepresents the answers and is a distraction (a common one in these discussions) to turn the focus to him, as somehow persecuted, and away from the issue: the access women have to computer science - and the access computer science has to the talent and hard work of half the population.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
You didn't read the article. The women are responding to an essay about why women don't want to code. As women who do want to code they're exactly the right people to ask.
I haven't read the article, but from your comment it doesn't seem dnautics misunderstood anything. > The women are responding to an essay about why women don't want to code. As women who do want to code they're exactly the right people to ask. How are they "exactly the right people to ask"? They're the exact opposite! Can you see the backwards logic in your comment? If you want to know why someone's doing or not doin…
The original essay that the article is a response to states "Women don't want to code." This article is about how that hypothesis is wrong. It proves that it's wrong by talking to women who do want to code, thereby demonstrating the original essay is incorrect.
You couldn't prove such a hypothesis wrong by talking to women who don't want to code.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#24Begging pardon, but is this not the wrong group of people to ask this question? Shouldn't we be asking women who didn't pursue computer science, not women who did?
I think the best people to be ask would be women who've left CS, either at undergrad level or after being employed for some period of time.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#25Begging pardon, but is this not the wrong group of people to ask this question? Shouldn't we be asking women who didn't pursue computer science, not women who did?
They are definitely a group worth talking to as they can speak first-hand to the difficulties they had getting/staying in the field despite having a strong desire to be there/here. Understanding at least some of what they felt they were up against should make clear the most obvious obstacles that need to be cleared.
>to the difficulties they had getting/staying in the field despite having a strong desire to be there/here
Why isn't it ok that they just aren't interested in it? Women have agency and intelligence and if they want to do something then they can and will do it.
I find this whole obsession with "Women in X" to be suspicious because nobody is interested in gender disparities in other fields and starting up "Men in X". So it's not a generic effort to understand a gender disparity, it is a specific directed effort to force women (who have agency and freedom) to go into a field that they don't really seem that interested in. Blaming men for women not taking CS degrees either directly or indirectly IMO denies womens agency and is totally unnecessary.
I think women are doing what they want to do, and they largely don't want to take CS it seems. Maybe if society stopped nagging them about it the situation might change organically.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#26Begging pardon, but is this not the wrong group of people to ask this question? Shouldn't we be asking women who didn't pursue computer science, not women who did?
They are definitely a group worth talking to as they can speak first-hand to the difficulties they had getting/staying in the field despite having a strong desire to be there/here. Understanding at least some of what they felt they were up against should make clear the most obvious obstacles that need to be cleared.
> Understanding at least some of what they felt they were up against should make clear the most obvious obstacles that need to be cleared.
That doesn't follow. The obstacles the women who succeeded in CS perceive aren't necessarily the same obstacles that drive women who don't succeed in or who don't pursue CS. Sometimes these will overlap, but not necessarily.
Clearly the obstacles faced by women who succeeded were insufficient to deter them, so we need to know what obstacles were successful deterrents.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#27The title looks paradoxical... It seems that they would be precisely the less qualified people to talk about this subject. Maybe the women who didn't become computer scientist should know better why.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#28Begging pardon, but is this not the wrong group of people to ask this question? Shouldn't we be asking women who didn't pursue computer science, not women who did?
Thank you for this live demonstration of how to dismiss the opinions of women in CS. I assume you were doing this ironically.
This comment is an excellent example of the kind of thing that causes disrespect for the feminist movement. It's totally counterproductive. If anything, dnautics's comment is in favor of feminism by improving the study. In order to get more women into CS, it would be more valuable to know the reasons of the women that didn't apply, rather than the reasons guessed by the women that did.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#29Begging pardon, but is this not the wrong group of people to ask this question? Shouldn't we be asking women who didn't pursue computer science, not women who did?
Thank you for this live demonstration of how to dismiss the opinions of women in CS. I assume you were doing this ironically.
I dont think the logic here is to assume that OP is dismissing the argument simply because they're women. I think OP just means that because they're already in the field, their opinions and viewpoints are very different from people who went in different directions in their life.
One quote from the article is Anna Karlin's where she says "Hence, when they get to college, fewer of the women have been exposed to the excitement of CS," and just that sentence alone is enough to show the bias there. I think we can gather that CS isn't inherently exciting except to a specific sort of person hence why most people choose not to pursue it. I would personally rather hear viewpoints from women who were on the border in college choosing their major or even girls in high school. I want to hear their mindset, not necessarily someone who assumes what others may think.
Re: Six women computer scientists respond to why women don’t pursue computer science
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I haven't read the article, but from your comment it doesn't seem dnautics misunderstood anything. > The women are responding to an essay about why women don't want to code. As women who do want to code they're exactly the right people to ask. How are they "exactly the right people to ask"? They're the exact opposite! Can you see the backwards logic in your comment? If you want to know why someone's doing or not doin…
The original essay that the article is a response to states "Women don't want to code." This article is about how that hypothesis is wrong. It proves that it's wrong by talking to women who do want to code, thereby demonstrating the original essay is incorrect. You couldn't prove such a hypothesis wrong by talking to women who don't want to code.
The original essay made a statistical claim, that most women don't want to code, ie. that 80/20 is a natural gender equilibrium of those actually interested in CS. It was not universal claim that no women want to code. Therefore this article is not a rebuttal.