Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 77 posts

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#41

Post by adam_albrecht »

mannicken wrote: post #35

I have been using drugs when I was young as well as being a distance runner and, well, runner's high is very similar to artificial intoxication. In fact, nothing I've ever tried has given me the same level of intoxication and euphoria as a run over 70 minutes long. There are studies that show similarities between a runner's high and opioid intoxication but I never tried opioids so I can't tell anything about it from…

"Runner's High" is something I often hear about, but still have trouble fathoming. Whenever I'm running, all I can think about is how boring it is and how I want to stop. (and it's not because I can't do it - I'm in pretty good shape and could probably run 3-5 miles today without having done it in a while).

Any tips on learning to enjoy running?

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#42

Post by matwood »

Retric wrote: post #31
cullenking wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an "endurance athlete" that regularly rides my bike 60+ miles. It's not a serious physical pain, like when you twist an ankle - I know when I am doing my body harm. It's pushing past a major amount of discomfort in order to achieve a goal. Granted, doing so without proper nutrition and hydration can cause injury, however your body is better off when you push through your concept of "too much". Seriously, my body…

I have done a fair amount of MA training and I think the best way to think about pain is recovery time. If I do this it will take my body less than two days to recover and it hurts but, that's reasonable if I want to progress. The next level of pain takes longer than that to recover from and should be avoided at all [1] costs. Fast recovery pain still has its downsides if you needed to escape from a burning building…

You make a great point about recovery time. Many people incorrectly assume that if you finish your workout hurting then it was a good workout. The problem is that as you get better it becomes much harder to hurt and it becomes a recovery management challenge. What people seem to have anecdotally found is that more workouts which can be recovered from in a day or two are much better than the giant ones that leave you hobbling for a week. I think this becomes even more important where there are skills involved beyond only strength (like MA).

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#43

Post by dgallagher »

Just want to point out that there's a difference between "pain" and "discomfort".

Pain is your body saying "I'm injured. If you don't stop now, expect things to become worse, potentially causing permanent damage." No athlete I'm aware of pushes through pain unless they expect to retire immediately after, or go into surgery. Runners who do this tend to get knocked out of the sport. Good runners recognize pain for what it is and stop immediately.

Discomfort is different. This is what the article is talking about. Running through cramps. Throwing up but still not stopping. Feeling tired but still pushing ahead. Leg muscles sore but still holding pace.

Of course you need to be careful about discomfort too. It could be a sign that you're severely dehydrated, or have too few electrolytes in your body. This is mostly an issue for distances greater than a marathon, however.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#44

Post by matwood »

runjake wrote: post #25
edw519 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They crave pain and can push their pain threshold... These two things seems contradictory. If they crave pain, why would they need to push their pain threshold? (Disclosure: I'm a wimpy athlete. I always thought pain was the body's signal that something was wrong, so I backed off. Your remark confuses me even more. Just trying to understand.)

They may seem contradictory, but they aren't. Pain is wonderful. Pushing through new thresholds brings new truths. As a person who regularly runs marathons and ultramarathons, I often get asked "Why?". I usually offer the "joking" response "I like suffering" with a chuckle. Except it's not really a joke, I DO like the suffering. When I'm out there suffering on the trail, I learn many truths about myself. There's no f…

So true on all accounts. I really enjoy hiking and in particular high altitude hikes. I get asked why all the time and my standard joke come back is "because it's there."

But in reality I also enjoy the suffering. There have been many hard hikes where I could simply turn around and the only person who would know is me, but I kept going anyways. You're someone who can understand the feeling of simply focusing on your next step and having the rest of the world melt away. After dealing with complexities all day at work it's nice to do something so...simple. Climb this mountain or lift this weight (I also love powerlifting with deadlifts being my absolute favorite).

When I rest I feel utterly lifeless except that my throat burns when I draw breath...I can scarcely go on. No despair, no happiness, no anxiety. I have not lost the mastery of my feelings, there are actually no more feelings. I consist only of will. -Messner talking about his first solo ascent of Everest

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#45

Post by wazoox »

adam_albrecht wrote: post #41
mannicken wrote: post #35

I have been using drugs when I was young as well as being a distance runner and, well, runner's high is very similar to artificial intoxication. In fact, nothing I've ever tried has given me the same level of intoxication and euphoria as a run over 70 minutes long. There are studies that show similarities between a runner's high and opioid intoxication but I never tried opioids so I can't tell anything about it from…

"Runner's High" is something I often hear about, but still have trouble fathoming. Whenever I'm running, all I can think about is how boring it is and how I want to stop. (and it's not because I can't do it - I'm in pretty good shape and could probably run 3-5 miles today without having done it in a while). Any tips on learning to enjoy running?

Run somewhere you may enjoy it. Running on the streets is an abomination. I know not everyone can live less than 1 km away from a forest, but...

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#46

Post by earl »

All serious athletes are used to withstanding high amounts of pain. When I was a serious runner, I think that was the thing the most people didn't understand -- as you get better at running, the pain doesn't stop. You just get better at pushing through it.

In any case, if you find this sort of thing inspiring, check out a documentary called Running on the Sun (trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-e4bOLAuXg ). It's about the badwater ultra -- a 135 mile road race through death valley to Mount Whitney, including 13000 ft of vertical ascent. Featuring air temps up to 130F and ground temps around 200F -- people have sneakers melt. Race by application only; you have to have completed a bunch of ultras so hopefully you won't die trying. The men's record is something like 22.5 hours and the women's is I think slightly over 25 hours.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#47

Post by bricestacey »

adam_albrecht wrote: post #41
mannicken wrote: post #35

I have been using drugs when I was young as well as being a distance runner and, well, runner's high is very similar to artificial intoxication. In fact, nothing I've ever tried has given me the same level of intoxication and euphoria as a run over 70 minutes long. There are studies that show similarities between a runner's high and opioid intoxication but I never tried opioids so I can't tell anything about it from…

"Runner's High" is something I often hear about, but still have trouble fathoming. Whenever I'm running, all I can think about is how boring it is and how I want to stop. (and it's not because I can't do it - I'm in pretty good shape and could probably run 3-5 miles today without having done it in a while). Any tips on learning to enjoy running?

I think it's important to acknowledge that the first few miles of a run are the worst. If you think 3-5 miles is an exceptional distance you've probably never run long enough to really get into an enjoyable state. For me, it's around 7-10 miles.

Where you run matters too. I enjoy running near water - Fresh Pond or the Charles River. I'd suggest running daily, following Hal Higdon's marathon training guide wherever it's most beautiful. http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00index.htm

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#48

Post by sedachv »

aspir wrote: post #39
beagle3 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be able to share a little about the 20 lbs in a week?

Ditto to everything maxawaytoolong posted TLDR: Mostly lost water weight. I'd done it enough to really know how my body worked. I knew the exercise techniques that worked particularly well for me, and I ate a super-clean diet. This wasn't a Jared Fogel style "I lost x lbs." He lost fat/tissue. For wrestlers, it's mostly a water cut. In sports like wrestling, boxing, or anything with a weight division you may need to…

What's the wrestling opinion on "hyperhydration" (drinking as much water as possible up until two days before weigh-in to manipulate vasopressin and aldosterone levels to essentially mimic diuretics, Tim Ferris wrote about it: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/01/18/how-to-cut-w...)? That's what's popular in drug-tested powerlifting. I hated cutting weight and the whole "sauna suit" and exercise approach sounds like torture to me, but I've cut up to 15 pounds using hyperhydration and steam rooms without having to do all that much (but I still hated it).

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#49

Post by mannicken »

adam_albrecht wrote: post #41
mannicken wrote: post #35

I have been using drugs when I was young as well as being a distance runner and, well, runner's high is very similar to artificial intoxication. In fact, nothing I've ever tried has given me the same level of intoxication and euphoria as a run over 70 minutes long. There are studies that show similarities between a runner's high and opioid intoxication but I never tried opioids so I can't tell anything about it from…

"Runner's High" is something I often hear about, but still have trouble fathoming. Whenever I'm running, all I can think about is how boring it is and how I want to stop. (and it's not because I can't do it - I'm in pretty good shape and could probably run 3-5 miles today without having done it in a while). Any tips on learning to enjoy running?

I've experienced it several times, all of the times on runs over 80 minutes long. Basically, it feels like you're a seven year old.. you start getting these flashbacks into childhood where everything was calm and peaceful.

I remember the first time I had the high I flashbacked into my 8th birthday, where my parents bought me a radio as a gift and we went to my grandmother's house and there was a lot of sun, and everything was so warm and fuzzy. I ran for a couple more miles, came back home and noticed that everything was warm and fuzzy there too. This was a night run, so I slept/dosed off in the bed through the next day and woke up around 2-3am 24 hours later.

That's when I was hooked. That's also when the shit started going wrong.

Re: How to Push Past the Pain, as the Champions Do

#50

Post by aspir »

sedachv wrote: post #48
aspir wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto to everything maxawaytoolong posted TLDR: Mostly lost water weight. I'd done it enough to really know how my body worked. I knew the exercise techniques that worked particularly well for me, and I ate a super-clean diet. This wasn't a Jared Fogel style "I lost x lbs." He lost fat/tissue. For wrestlers, it's mostly a water cut. In sports like wrestling, boxing, or anything with a weight division you may need to…

What's the wrestling opinion on "hyperhydration" (drinking as much water as possible up until two days before weigh-in to manipulate vasopressin and aldosterone levels to essentially mimic diuretics, Tim Ferris wrote about it: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/01/18/how-to-cut-w... )? That's what's popular in drug-tested powerlifting. I hated cutting weight and the whole "sauna suit" and exercise approach sou…

It's the accepted practice now in the collegiate and post-collegiate levels. In high school, people still stick to the old school death by dehydration method, but more experienced people know about the hyperhydration methods.

Actually, some of the best athletes move up weight classes now. Cael Sanderson (only 4x undefeated NCAA champ) comes to mind. It's being determined that moving up and eating well increases your strength and speed, and makes you more successful than cutting too hard (to a point). Everyone these days is incredibly lean and well trained- the difference factor is in stamina now, and it is night and day between someone who cut too much weight and someone slightly smaller, but better nourished, than his opponent.

Post reply on HN