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WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

forbes.com

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Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#391

Post by uxcolumbo »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #358
toast0 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could, but in order to make that reliable, you have to use a lot of other people's space storing other people's messages... It's a lot simpler to keep it reliable if the service owner owns this (this is also part of the reason the Skype supernodes moved to be company hosted)

How much replication do you need? 10x? 20x? If these are text messages that's probably less than 10KB per person per week of being offline. Delete the messages if the recipient hasn't come online in a week. I believe you could build a highly reliable P2P offline texting app without any centralized services. I'm not sure anyone would want it and it seems difficult to monetize, but it is doable.

Messaging apps nowadays also allow you to send images and even videos.

How would you handle those? Or only allow sending text when the other person is offline?

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#392

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

wand3r wrote: post #335
dasil003 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, 2014 makes no material difference. It's not the recent scandals that have somehow revealed Facebook to be the spiritual successor to Microsoft's "embrace and extend" strategy; this has been obvious for at least a decade. Maybe the public didn't realize it yet, but anyone in tech, especially a successful founding team would have been well aware. That said, I'm not going to demonize these guys. Brian Acton clearly…

They were really the second big acquisition and they got a huge valuation. Instagram was running pretty autonomously at the time (2 years prior) so between talking to them and seeing the arrangement and the belief they would be valued as employees like their company; I get it. Also it was huge money that can give you rose colored glasses.

I think this is the right answer. They probably saw Facebook's "hands-off" approach with Instagram and assumed they would get the same treatment.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#393

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

nashashmi wrote: post #289
praseodym wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On iOS the app used to be $0.99 (one-off), which probably made them a couple millions. In 2013 they moved to a subscription model [1] but this was never implemented; I think nobody was ever charged. [1] https://www.wired.co.uk/article/whatsapp-on-ios-now-free

I was an idiot who paid for it. twice (－‸ლ)

I paid for it too. I like to think that "idiots" like us prove that there is demand for a paid ad-and-tracking-free messaging service, so maybe our efforts weren't in vain.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#394

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

megaremote wrote: post #351
sushisource wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also fail to see how driving a minivan makes you a better person. I don't understand why we fetishize the rich who live like they aren't. I get not overconsuming, but if you're gonna buy a car might as well make it a nice one - the impact is basically the same.

Exactly, anyone who buys a car as bad as any other.

I know, right? Fuck them for wanting to get to work or take their kids to school. Selfish assholes.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#395

Post by fredoliveira »

qaq wrote: post #159
fredoliveira wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that at this point we can consider Facebook anything but evil on a pretty global scale.

I would bet at least 60% of population works for something more evil than FB. Yes they are evil but not in a sense lets start a war and kill few 100K innocent people because we need to run pipelines evil.

I think you need a lot more clarity on how the world's workforce is structured. You are forgetting that the vast majority of the world is doing brick and mortar, making your clothes, planting your crops, etc.

The dissemination of wrong information, the contribution to individualism, and the obvious (blatant) disregard for the world population's privacy is really up there on the charts.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#396

Post by qaq »

fredoliveira wrote: post #395
qaq wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet at least 60% of population works for something more evil than FB. Yes they are evil but not in a sense lets start a war and kill few 100K innocent people because we need to run pipelines evil.

I think you need a lot more clarity on how the world's workforce is structured. You are forgetting that the vast majority of the world is doing brick and mortar, making your clothes, planting your crops, etc. The dissemination of wrong information, the contribution to individualism, and the obvious (blatant) disregard for the world population's privacy is really up there on the charts.

I should've specified US.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#397

Post by EthanHeilman »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #391
EthanHeilman wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much replication do you need? 10x? 20x? If these are text messages that's probably less than 10KB per person per week of being offline. Delete the messages if the recipient hasn't come online in a week. I believe you could build a highly reliable P2P offline texting app without any centralized services. I'm not sure anyone would want it and it seems difficult to monetize, but it is doable.

Messaging apps nowadays also allow you to send images and even videos. How would you handle those? Or only allow sending text when the other person is offline?

I agree that once you start adding features like images and videos that it tips the balance more toward centralization.

> Or only allow sending text when the other person is offline?

I think that is an excellent idea.

Also I'd propose a vector-based image format with a maximum file size and fixed resolution (for online and offline messages). That way you could send drawings and diagrams without increasing the data requirements. It would also give the app a unique look and feel and would make it more difficult but not impossible for people to send hideous photographic content.

The real question to me is how many people are willing to have less features for more decentralization. I suspect that is a small number of users.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#398

Post by Markoff »

sdiq wrote: post #34

I have just deleted WhatsApp from my phone. I am not really sure though what to replace it with for the occasional foreign phone calls.

signal it's obvious choice, but also Skype has now optional Signal encryption plus they removed clutter so if you want actual users it's not that bad option

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#399

Post by Markoff »

Marsymars wrote: post #245
sidcool wrote: post #217

A genuine question. How are ads possible in WhatsApp if it's end to end encrypted?

The ads won't be targeted based on your messages. They'll just be targeted based on all the other info FB has on you.

what if you don't use Facebook and only use WhatsApp? not much information besides contacts and rough location

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#400

Post by xibalba »

b3n wrote: post #381
xibalba wrote: post #167

Acton is being incredibly disingenuous and it is disappointing. When you sell your company to another for $19B, you should surely know that the expectations for monetization will be very heavy indeed. Well beyond Acton's suggested metered-user model. I'm certainly no great fan of Facebook, but anyone who thinks that they deserve to use a service free of charge and also avoid advertising is extremely entitled and disc…

> [...] anyone who thinks that they deserve to use a service free of charge and also avoid advertising is extremely entitled and disconnected from reality. There is no free lunch. We are using Hacker News, free of charge, without advertising. Or for a bigger example, most Wikipedia users have never donated and yet use the service with zero advertising. Or there's Signal, as mentioned in the article, and countless oth…

Hacker News is subsidized by perhaps the most successful venture capital firm of all time. Wikipedia routinely raises lots and lots of money via donation. Signal is funded by a multi-billionaire.

There is never a free lunch. Employees must be compensated, capital equipment must be bought/rented. The revenue has to come from somewhere.

Neither of Hacker News nor Wikipedia nor Signal was purchased to the tune of $19B. So who set that price? Let me assure you, Facebook would have gladly paid less. And, of course, Facebook bought WhatsApp with the intention of turning a profit. The rest follows logically.

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