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Hire people who aren’t proven

leonardofed.io

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Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#11

Post by Aeolun »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

After 10 years, most veterans have learned not to care. Or at least, not care too much.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#12

Post by vorpalhex »

I think this is good advice... for larger companies with well established patterns. One of the issues of a startup is that the founders are breathing down your neck and often don't care a whole lot about "well designed software" (or want to overbuild mvp products). Standing up to management, building best practices, and being agile while still pushing back when needed against founders/sales isn't easy but it's something engineers in a startup environment have to deal with directly constantly.

A larger company has more layers of management to, hopefully, help filter that out. Larger companies have best practices written down and figured out, CI/CD pipelines in place, etc. It gives newer engineers more opportunity to succeed in areas where they are strong, while letting them have mentorship in areas they are new to them.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#15

Post by j45 »

Having hired folks who weren't proven, most didn't work out. However, the ones who did work out were great.

One difference that stood out beyond courage and attitude is how engaged in actualizing one's potential the candidate is.

Everyone has potential. The person doing the hiring may see it. The candidate may, or may not.

The only thing that mattered in the end was the candidates ability to actualize their own potential beyond what they may see in themselves, given an opportunity.

The questions "What do you build/work on when no one is looking" is one interesting question to elicit a sense of their attitude towards their potential, and if they have the courage to undertake building/learning something for the sake of learning.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#16

Post by dalore »

Aeolun wrote: post #11
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

After 10 years, most veterans have learned not to care. Or at least, not care too much.

I would say us old timers learn to be more picky about what we care about. It's a finite resource.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#17

Post by lvh »

chrisseaton wrote: post #13

I don't see how 'hire people who aren't proven' can be compatible with 'can this candidate do the job'. You want to know if they can do the job, but you aren't interested in any proof for that?

You could, instead of relying on a resume to determine if someone can do X, ask them to do some X instead of an interview, and then use an objective rubric to decide if they did X to some level of satisfaction.

This is called work sample testing and it works great.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#18

Post by remote_phone »

It’s a great sentiment and I would love to hear this blog poster’s success with his system that he described. Does he have actual metrics as to how effective his description is, or is this just another example of someone on the Internet making an edict with no data backing it?

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#19

Post by ravenstine »

Aeolun wrote: post #11
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

After 10 years, most veterans have learned not to care. Or at least, not care too much.

They pretty much have to because the majority of environments they have to work in aren't hospitable to people who actually care. Hence many of us eventually get to the point of "just make it work" that we once used to scoff at on HN. As with most things in life, software engineers eventually beat the game only to find that there was nothing to win the whole time playing by a set of ideals.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#20

Post by fsiefken »

Very good points, being on the lookout myself I realize this also works the other way around. I need to be good at answering:

* Can I do the job and can I communicate my weaknesses and strengths?

* Will I be motivated?

* Will I get along with the people?

* What will I be 3, 6, 12 months from now? What do I want to achieve?

* What's my motivation and attitude?

* How do I learn?

* How do I work through blocks?

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