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Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#121

Post by alfredmuffin »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #67
alfredmuffin wrote: post #49

I question the professional experience of those suggesting that continuing to be an asshole is the preferable situation here ("but at least he's HONEST "). That would simply not fly at my company. It is absolutely possible to be kind when giving honest and constructive feedback and criticism. Empathy is a skill this industry needs to develop.

> That would simply not fly at my company. Sure, but that's a terrible example because a lot of what goes on in companies is more about appearance than substance.

Can't speak for others, but at my large tech company the push for empathy has demonstrably increased employee happiness.

Naturally, the individuals who argued against these changes were older white male engineers too ingrained in their ways.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#123

Post by yashap »

tomlock wrote: post #87
yashap wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In “real life,” no, but on the internet, yes.

So my assumption then since you've said "many on the left" fly to outrage too easily, is that you don't know many people in real life who are on the left. Is that accurate?

Very wrong, I’m quite left wing myself, as are most of my friends/family. I’m really not sure why you’re jumping to these conclusions based on my post.

In terms of “real life” vs. internet, people are just a lot more reasonable in person, with minimal outrage. But online, especially on discussion boards, people are constantly flying into outrage.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#124

Post by catfish123 »

caf wrote: post #44
mosselman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are either a truthful asshole or a kind liar? There are no people who are kind and honest?

I don't know, but the idioms of the "white lie" and "polite fiction" certainly imply some connection between impoliteness and truth-telling, don't they?

So what? There are also non benevolent lies and polite truth.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#125

Post by ayyyyylmao2000 »

Linus had to step away likely because some paid agent gained dirt on him (I wouldn't be surprised if hired by Intel). Eventually, some woman may have had five minutes alone with him, where nothing happened, but enough time to be able to slander him if she so wishes. And having a family, he had to step back to avoid damage.

As a reminder, both Linus and his second in-command Tso have rejected numerous backdoor attempts by Intel. This Code-of-Conduct debacle is a political weapon to expel the original contributors of open-source projects who pose an obstacle to multinational technology corporations.

Linux was developed in a mailing list with complete anonymity. Race or religion are only brought into play if someone decides to provide personal details. The more interesting thing is that on Reddit, all discussion about this was censored.

Furthermore, to top it off, the individual responsible for this public witch hunt has been caught tweeting on how glorious it is that developers of Linux will start going out en mass.

https://lulz.com/linux-devs-threaten-killswitch-coc-controve...

EDIT: to the down-voting shills, please do provide constructive commentary on this idea, valid as any other.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#126

Post by mikeash »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #113
mikeash wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would stop being so concerned about what other people think. If treating people well is the right thing to do, then do it. If people are nasty when they try to make you treat people well, ignore them. When people say that they wanted to do the right thing but got pushed away because the advocates were jerks, that just sounds like an excuse. That’s not to say that it’s ok to be a jerk just because you’re…

The thing is, on most political or religious topics, people leave that stuff at home and don't bring it to work. The SJW people are bringing it to work and right into everybody's face. I'm not saying "guess what, then, I'm the opposite, let's go be racist". I'm saying "could you please get that out of my face".

You said this stuff “pushes me away from it.” It should push you away from the troublesome people, and nothing more.

When you say most people leave this stuff at home, that seems to imply that the status quo is neutral. It isn’t. Continuing to treat people the way you always have is just as much of a statement as saying you should treat people differently. It’s just easier to find agreement.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#127

Post by 08-15 »

rpoconn1 wrote: post #77
rectang wrote: post #4

It's interesting that Torvalds describes himself as "not a people person", when he's a gifted communicator who has been tremendously successful at managing the community around Linux over many years. His current refinements are making a great thing even better.

[flagged]

True. But was Hitler a People-Person? What about Goebbels?

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#128

Post by alfredmuffin »

arayh wrote: post #112
alfredmuffin wrote: post #49

I question the professional experience of those suggesting that continuing to be an asshole is the preferable situation here ("but at least he's HONEST "). That would simply not fly at my company. It is absolutely possible to be kind when giving honest and constructive feedback and criticism. Empathy is a skill this industry needs to develop.

Absolutely! This reminds me of https://compassionatecoding.com/ - there's a lot to be said about this industry and the "cold" work environments that are associated to it. I support the compassionate coding movement. Software engineers should support and help each other improve as a whole. It creates a much better work culture and more effective team communication.

Every company needs to adopt this movement. I wish the HN community weren't so rooted in their toxicity, and just recognized the need for industry-wide change.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#129

Post by alfredmuffin »

fireflash38 wrote: post #117
spaniard89277 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there more Europeans here in HN? Because this hard push for empathy and stuff it just feels... weird to me. Empathy as the ability to see through your own biases and understand others POV is good in every setting. Empathy as a way to not communicate directly is just a waste of time. Most malicious people I've encountered in my career are the types that comes with smiles, corporate language and all that stuff.

'Empathy' in most of these cases mean: don't act like a vitriolic douche. Don't insult or belittle the person. Learn to critique without being an asshole about it. On the other hand: take criticism of your work without taking it personally. That's arguably a lot harder than the former, but it's gotta be done. It helps a lot when the person isn't being an asshole about the criticism though :)

It is indeed a two way street.
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