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If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

eand.co

11–20 of 52 posts

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#11
Capitalism is not a choice.

Given the nature of the human mind and the material state of the world, the equilibrium state of human economies is capitalism.

To see what I mean, consider any complex system. There will be certain patterns and processes that naturally unfold in that system, while other patterns and processes do not manifest without external energy. The reason is because the former states are closer to the equilibrium state of the system while the latter are comparatively farther away.

Capitalism is like an equilibrium state, and all attempts to control capitalism require external energy. What is a concrete example of this?

Regulation has a tendency to be repealed if the public or government loses sight of why the regulation was passed in the first place. On the other hand, companies usually want regulations repealed by default. This tension between opposing forces must resolve itself, and it does in favor of companies because not only are they constantly applying pressure against regulations, but the public is often allured by the fact that many regulations lower potential levels of economic growth. Therefore it's more likely than not that regulations be repealed in the long run.

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#12
post #9
post #5

The conflation of slavery with capitalism is too easy a target, so I'll address a highlight: "what’s striking about capitalism is that we’re all trying to escape it — even most of the capitalists — because it makes us so miserable, mean, and foolish." Philanthropy is not "escaping" capitalism. Going to mars is not "escaping" capitalism. Achieving financial independence is not "escaping" capitalism. These are all choi…

Charity makes sense in a capitalistic world, because some people get the "choice" of being poor in it.

Many people do. Many poor people make bad life decisions which lead them, unfortunately, into their poverty.

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#13
The premise is a really strange one to set up. I think he tries to motivate it somewhat later on in the article:

> You can see it in stark, comic terms. What are Bezos and Musk doing? Trying to flee to Mars. What’s Gates doing? Recommending you books to read, and trying to save the world with charity. LOL — how ironic. These are different forms of freedom from capitalism

I would argue, that especially in case of Musk and Bezos capitalism is serving it's purpose. Some of us think space exploration makes sense, others would rather buy a yacht, help the third world, or just put it in a bank.

Musk or Bezos are not 'fleeing', they are diverting their own resources and that of shareholders into the goal of reaching, and colonizing Mars.

Something a government might never bother with.

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#15
post #7

IMHO the premise is wrong. The capitalist isn't trying to gain freedom from capitalism, but from market.

I'd rather say that (for at least some of) the capitalists' the goal is control/dominate the market not escape it.

Anyway, the whole article is full of wrong/weird premises, ie. talking to Alexa = talking to capitalism; mission to Mars = escape from the capitalism, not apotheosis of it etc.

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#17

what's more, as was pointed-out on a recent episode of the EconTalk podcast, although our society as a whole is capitalist, internally almost all corporations are run as communist dictatorships

Heh,that's kind of funny. Though, the methods of enforcement don't translate well outside a company. A company either ostracizes you or kills you off, depending how you want to translate 'firing' outside of a company.

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#18

The premise is a really strange one to set up. I think he tries to motivate it somewhat later on in the article: > You can see it in stark, comic terms. What are Bezos and Musk doing? Trying to flee to Mars. What’s Gates doing? Recommending you books to read, and trying to save the world with charity. LOL — how ironic. These are different forms of freedom from capitalism I would argue, that especially in case of Musk…

> Something a government might never bother with.

Maybe because colonizing Mars is a massive waste of resources that could be better spent fixing the planet we already live on? Or do you think the solution to scarcity is to have billionaires play with their space toys?

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#19
"what’s striking about capitalism is that we’re all trying to escape it — even most of the capitalists — because it makes us so miserable, mean, and foolish."

No, capitalism makes us happy, nice, and smart. More importantly, capitalism makes us rich.

It's really easy to hate on capitalism because everything that's wrong in your life can be reasonably explained away with "if we didn't have capitalism this wouldn't be a problem." But the fact us, most of the things that capitalism does for you (the average reader of HN who most likely lives in a capitalist country) are invisible. You don't realize how much capitalism is responsible for everything in your life that isn't making you miserable. Things like:

- Affordable food from all over the world available in all varieties in all seasons, fresh and uncontaminated by toxins or spoilage - Abundant, cheap energy that lowers the cost of everything from raising children to acquiring knowledge to healthcare (not to mention travel and leisure) - Access to aspirin, toothbrushes, toilet paper, shaving cream, dental floss, tissues, towels, soap, and thousands of other daily necessities that allow us to live more hygienic and healthier lives - Higher level education (which would not be possible without a basic level of societal comfort) which unlocks advances in science, mathematics, medicine, economics and other areas that improve the human condition - Riches and wealth available to a wider net of people that have ever had it before, in a way that doesn't deprive or prevent more people from acquiring more wealth...this has of course downstream effects like reducing crime and increasing camaraderie and mutual respect (you gain more from trading with a rival than fighting with them and trying to take their resources)

Take away capitalism and what do you get? Well, you can easily visit Cuba or Venezuela right now to find out. You get:

- Kids with no shoes - Crumbling infrastructure - 'Free' healthcare with no aspirin - Violent revolution or suppression of revolutionary activity - A population of greedy individuals and families doing everything they can to protect their own resources and take others' (this isn't an indictment of these people, this is exactly what humans need to do when their livelihood is threatened) - People with no education because they're spending all their time scrambling to survive

If you want people who are really "miserable, mean, and foolish", take away capitalism and that's exactly what you'll get.

Re: If the Point of Capitalism Is to Escape Capitalism, Then Why Capitalism?

#20
Capitalism (especially the free market kind) has been most successful when it has been used as a pragmatic tool, instead of a dogmatic philosophy.

So basically, my answer to "Why Capitalism" is that "it works".

Capitalism cannot (rather, should not) provide you with a set of ideals or principles. Capitalism is a tool to achieve those set of ideals or principles, and should be used where appropriate in order to achieve those ideals and principles.

The ideals and principles have to come from elsewhere.

Elon Musk and Bezos believe in the principle of a backup planet, so they leverage capitalism to reach Mars. Bill Gates believes in book recommendations and charity, so he leverages it for that purpose. Someone who is closer to an employee believes in a building a good life for themselves and their family, and they use capitalism for that.

The article is like asking "What's the point of a hammer when once you've used it to hang a portrait you put it away?"

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