Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite' • Hacker News Board

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#71

Post by spaniard89277 » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

alfredmuffin wrote: post #49

I question the professional experience of those suggesting that continuing to be an asshole is the preferable situation here ("but at least he's HONEST "). That would simply not fly at my company. It is absolutely possible to be kind when giving honest and constructive feedback and criticism. Empathy is a skill this industry needs to develop.

Are there more Europeans here in HN? Because this hard push for empathy and stuff it just feels... weird to me. Empathy as the ability to see through your own biases and understand others POV is good in every setting. Empathy as a way to not communicate directly is just a waste of time.

Most malicious people I've encountered in my career are the types that comes with smiles, corporate language and all that stuff.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#72

Post by yashap » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

tomlock wrote: post #56

yashap wrote: post #33

His quotes about political correctness are pretty interesting. Basically that neo-Nazis have tried to brand themselves as “just practical people against excessive political correctness,” but really that’s just a facade covering their true hate and racism. But now, if you’re ACTUALLY just someone who’s against excessive political correctness, you risk being associated with neo-Nazis. I’d consider myself pretty left-wi…

Have you personally, in real life, encountered many people who were "outraged" by you using he/she?

In “real life,” no, but on the internet, yes.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#73

Post by werid » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

Vinnl wrote: post #64

His feelings about two of the "sides" of this argument are so recognisable. I'm generally in favour of going out of my way e.g. to make minorities feel more welcome to compensate for the natural tendency to make them feel less welcome. However, the nastiness of some of the people in "my camp" pushes me away from it and makes me reluctant to openly support that cause. In effect, they're really counterproductive, and t…

> However, the nastiness of some of the people in "my camp" pushes me away from it and makes me reluctant to openly support that cause.

Doesn't sound like you actually supported the cause if you can be pushed away from it like that.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#74

Post by steve_taylor » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #48

zellyn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course a Code of Conduct is a political document.

That's worrying, it shouldn't be. - Ethics are things the overwhelming majority of humans agree on. - Politics are not. Edit for 'edent' below due to rate limit: Were you replying to someone else? My comment mentioned the majority of people agree on ethics. Racial, gender, sexual preference and religious discrimination isn't considered OK in most western countries. Additionally, you're derailing the discussion by tal…

I would at least say it needn't be. Can we not set out rules for an open source community to follow without enumerating the pet peeves and favourite protected classes in descending order of importance to the document's author?

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#75

Post by pommed » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

steve_taylor wrote: post #24

nailer wrote: post #15

I remember looking at Linux's angrier style maybe 15 years ago (I would have been 22) and not being bothered. Someone made a stupid mistake and was getting a bollocking. Looking at it as a 37 year old last week, I'm surprised a grown man needed to be so aggressive. You can destroy the opinion or the behavior using reason without the aggression, which distracts. I like that Linux is changing this, though I do have con…

> I do have concerns about the CoC being used for political purposes That's the CoC's entire purpose. Its author (the same person behind the post-meritocracy manifesto) has said that yes, the CoC is a political document.

[flagged]

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#76

Post by maxxxxx » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

pytyper2 wrote: post #38

There are a lot of us like Linus. The easy solution is not emotional counseling, it's an assistant/editor who can tone down his public comments. This is not a new problem.

True. Have someone do a quick check before sending. "Do you really want to say it that way?"

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#77

Post by rpoconn1 » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #4

It's interesting that Torvalds describes himself as "not a people person", when he's a gifted communicator who has been tremendously successful at managing the community around Linux over many years. His current refinements are making a great thing even better.

[flagged]

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#78

Post by AllegedAlec » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

nalllar wrote: post #51

steve_taylor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do have concerns about the CoC being used for political purposes That's the CoC's entire purpose. Its author (the same person behind the post-meritocracy manifesto) has said that yes, the CoC is a political document.

Being political isn't a problem. Free Software is political. mjg59 put this far better than I could: > A reminder that free software is fundamentally about breaking down barriers preventing people from participating in a social endeavour that grants them more control over their computers, and anyone who argues against that process is not helping the cause of free software > Some of those barriers are technical (DRM,…

Where in the definition of FOSS does it say anything about breaking down barriers? Neither the definition of free software nor the definition of open software said anything about that. Unless that guy somehow would provide something that indicates that there's a consensus about his definition of FOSS being the correct one, it's just another person trying to push his own values as the values of an entire group.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#79

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

werid wrote: post #73

Vinnl wrote: post #64

His feelings about two of the "sides" of this argument are so recognisable. I'm generally in favour of going out of my way e.g. to make minorities feel more welcome to compensate for the natural tendency to make them feel less welcome. However, the nastiness of some of the people in "my camp" pushes me away from it and makes me reluctant to openly support that cause. In effect, they're really counterproductive, and t…

> However, the nastiness of some of the people in "my camp" pushes me away from it and makes me reluctant to openly support that cause. Doesn't sound like you actually supported the cause if you can be pushed away from it like that.

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#80

Post by nalllar » Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

pommed wrote: post #75

steve_taylor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do have concerns about the CoC being used for political purposes That's the CoC's entire purpose. Its author (the same person behind the post-meritocracy manifesto) has said that yes, the CoC is a political document.

[flagged]

> The only reason "body size" is mentioned, is because the author is fat. The only reason why "gender identity and expression" is mentioned, is because the author is trans. For most of these cases, a simple "don't discriminate on disability" would suffice.

Is being fat or trans a disability? :/