The reverse job applicant • Hacker News Board

Re: The reverse job applicant

#151

Post by jbooth » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:29 PM UTC

jemfinch wrote: post #135

jbooth wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've taken your challenge and passed. Are you calling me a liar? I'm calling you not particularly self-aware. After a year of coding in that language, the code you wrote after 2 weeks will likely look like crap to you. Unless that language is so domain specific that there's no room for design or so derivative that you can apply another language's style 100%, you almost definitely still have more to learn after 2 wee…

> I'm calling you not particularly self-aware. Based on no real data except your prejudices. > Unless that language is so domain specific that there's no room for design or so derivative that you can apply another language's style 100%, you almost definitely still have more to learn after 2 weeks. There's a vast chasm between "understands the language's semantics" and "has no more to learn." I've been programming for…

Well, I suppose we're operating with a different definition of "understand", regarding the semantics.

RE: Sawzall, haven't used it, but assuming it's similar to Pig, that's pretty domain specific. You'll probably write different code a year from now than you're writing now, though.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#152

Post by run4yourlives » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:29 PM UTC

azanar wrote: post #142

run4yourlives wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh... my original point seems to be lost arguing semantics with academics in this sub-thread it seems...

I'll not speak for everyone else. But, for me, your point got lost in the righteous indignation that came in subsequent replies in the sub-thread. It is very difficult to assert humility while maintaining an impression of the same. I only started replying when you made this about identity.

Actually, I think what's happening is that a good number of people are taking my comments as some sort of personal attack, even though they aren't even directed at them specifically.

Like I said: It attacks their world view.

I'm playing the persona of a person that has been around the block a little too well perhaps to make a point. The fact is that there is always somebody more experienced, smarter, better than you are, no matter who you happen to be. Even if you are at the top of your game, changing the subject matter can easily knock you down a few pegs.

I appreciate that what I'm saying may be lost on the youthful part of this audience and may be taken as me saying that I am better than you all because I have a few years on you. Be clear: this isn't what I am saying. I'm no less of an audience to my own comments as anyone else reading them.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#153

Post by joelesler » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:34 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #113

ajaimk wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. This guy is indeed special. If for no other reason than for the fact that he had the fucking guts to write this.

Sometimes, wisdom is preferable to guts.

Well said there.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#154

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:34 PM UTC

azanar wrote: post #133

run4yourlives wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. I'm generation X. We all knew that we were the first generation to be worse off than our parents. We entered the economy when nobody was hiring, especially if you were a white male. Most of us were happy just to get a job. I was - get this - happy to get into the army. (Canada) It's more likely than not that we were the exception to the rule, I'll accept that. But I believe that my generation overall was mo…

You have a tremendous number of potentially severe cognitive biases in just these few sentences. In fact, it strikes me as wearing a sense of pessimistic self-fulfillment in as much as the article author suffers from self-entitlement. You're not the only generation Xer I've conversed with. I'm right on the cusp between that generation and the next, so I know a number of people from both; it's an interesting place to…

[deleted]

Re: The reverse job applicant

#155

Post by timwiseman » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:41 PM UTC

azanar wrote: post #127

run4yourlives wrote: post #72

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. This is going to ruin your world view, so brace yourself So, this is ridiculously tongue-in-cheek, and the reply is over-the-top to the degree that I can imagine with no effort the same being…

The real question seems to be: What is this hypothetical corporation looking for?

If my company wants someone that can come in and start coding from day 1 then yes I want someone that already knows language x well, and can show me samples right now. I am deliberately overlooking your alleged ability to quickly pick up new technologies.

If I am looking for someone to join the company for the long term and I am willing to train, then I might care more about your ability to learn quickly (but you better be ready to prove it...) and little about what you know now.

In the real world, what I am looking for most of the time is in between. I want someone that I can assume will be with the company for a long time so they need to be able to learn and adapt as we change. But I also want someone that can be productive without a huge lead up time so they need to already know something really close to language x if not language x itself.

In short, I normally want some of both and your alleged ability to quickly pick things up is not being overlooking, but it is only one part of the equation and I seriously want you to have something close to language X already.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#156

Post by run4yourlives » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:44 PM UTC

azanar wrote: post #133

run4yourlives wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. I'm generation X. We all knew that we were the first generation to be worse off than our parents. We entered the economy when nobody was hiring, especially if you were a white male. Most of us were happy just to get a job. I was - get this - happy to get into the army. (Canada) It's more likely than not that we were the exception to the rule, I'll accept that. But I believe that my generation overall was mo…

You have a tremendous number of potentially severe cognitive biases in just these few sentences. In fact, it strikes me as wearing a sense of pessimistic self-fulfillment in as much as the article author suffers from self-entitlement. You're not the only generation Xer I've conversed with. I'm right on the cusp between that generation and the next, so I know a number of people from both; it's an interesting place to…

Well, I don't think you can discuss this particular topic without making gross over generalizations and employing some type of bias. We're talking about generations of people after all.

Gen X'ers will see the world the way we see it. It may be ridiculous, but keep in mind that we've lived through both yours and our own experiences, when you have not. That doesn't mean we're right, but it does mean we have a lot more data to work with.

Of course, there is a tendency to imply "walk 6 miles to school uphill in snowstorms" with our memories, which I acknowledge.

The particular challenges of Generation X are well documented. The fact that these aren't also attributed to Millennials tells you pretty much all you need to know: The environment has changed.

It's not a good/bad thing, it's just a thing.

Finally, I put this forward: We wouldn't have had this discussion had this been written in 1990. He would have been dismissed as delusional.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#157

Post by scott_s » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:44 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #72

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

Good timing.

  user:    run4yourlives
  created: 1337 days ago

Re: The reverse job applicant

#158

Post by run4yourlives » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:45 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #157

run4yourlives wrote: post #72

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

Good timing. user: run4yourlives created: 1337 days ago

lol. This is the coolest thing I've ever done.

...and it was completely unintended. :-)

Re: The reverse job applicant

#159

Post by randomtask » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:49 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #72

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

You know nothing of his situation and yet are willing to cast aspersions on his character. Before you go tarring a whole generation with the "entitled" label perhaps a little context from the generation that lacks humility might be in order.

Friends of mine are in the same position as this guy. They recently graduated with good degrees from a decent university with no allusions that finding a job was going to be anything but difficult. Rather than feel like they're owed a job the ones I know have spent hours _every_ day applying for jobs for the past (up to) 2 years with no success. Most of the time they get no reply from these companies (fair enough), but the few times they do get an interview someone else with more experience gets the job.

This is clearly a frustrating position to be in. They feel like they've done everything that was expected of them. They went to university and graduated with a good degree. Now they see their friends who left school and started working immediately progressing in their careers and can't help but feel like they should have done the same.

All the while this goes on people from other generations who have jobs harp on about how it's a disgrace that there are so many people on social welfare and these people could find a job if they wanted.

When my friends get asked what they do and they reply that they're unemployed they're treated like plague monkeys. They're villified by members of the media and politicians looking for votes. Still they perservere. Far from feel a sense of entitlement these people feel despair. You think they don't know that they're "not fucking special" as you so eloquently put it?

If after two years of applying for jobs without an end in sight he feels like venting a little bit of frustration at the attitudes of recruiters towards people like him that's not the worst thing in the world. If his situation is even half as bad as some of my friends' I wouldn't dare condescend to him by calling him entitled, far from it.

It's not often I get angry after reading a comment on HN.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#160

Post by micheljansen » Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 7:51 PM UTC

With the risk of sounding redundant: I would never wish to reverse the job seeking process for myself. I prefer to keep my destiny in my own hands and seek out the job I feel best fits my skills and interests. I don't trust potential employers to just magically find me, a single person, and appreciate me for what I am worth. Too many times already I have been approached by recruiters that get triggered by a line in my CV stating that I can do X or have experience using Y and want to hire me to do that for the rest of my life.

To all the good recruiters and intermediaries out there, I apologize. I have lost all faith in your profession and feel you treat the companies you represent as the customer and me as the product. Quite frankly, I'd rather pass and take my chances on my own.