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'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

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Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#111

Post by UncleMeat »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #52
daxterspeed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the top left of the video feed there's supposed to be an active input display (showing what buttons are being pressed on the controller). At this point in the video he fixes the input display, causing the capture of the timer to stagger a little bit. As you'll notice by the end of the video the timer doesn't actually display 4:55.913, even though that's his record time - this is because the entire run has been re-…

How did he know, live, that he'd beaten the time?

SMB has a weird property that all levels are finished in exact multiples of 21 frames (except the last level). This makes it very easy to know precisely where you are in relation to the WR at any given moment. Kosmic knows that he is precisely 21 frames ahead of the WR going into the final level. He has also done 8-4 so many times that he has a very good idea of how many frames it took (maybe off by 1-5 frames at the end). Also, the bowser hammer pattern at the end depends on the frame so if you have the patterns memorized you can tell exactly how many frames it took.

All this together, Kosmic can be very sure that the run is below 4:56 without timing it down to the frame.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#112

Post by wild_preference »

Hattes wrote: post #40
wild_preference wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn't true. Recently there was a Super Meat Boy cheater who was discovered due to analysis of a persistent animation across the game that wasn't lining up due to video cuts. Pretty flimsy system (and far from "solved"), and it lets cheaters steal glory for the months or years it takes to catch them which threatens the legitimacy of the sport past a critical mass. Moderators/judges are on the wrong side of a…

I know of the Super Meat Boy example (I've seen the Apollo Legend videos too). Was that run streamed live?

don't know, but my point is that it took a rather serendipitous global animation to expose them. There are people who think speed runs should require footage of the controller for the sake of a consistent analysis medium, and I'm sympathetic to them for the sake of the legitimacy of the sport at the expense of accessibility.

And to respond to your question, you can livestream a pre-recorded video so it doesn't matter. Some guy livestreamed a record breaking run of Yoshi's island or something but got cocky and streamed his controller, and someone trivially discovered he was miming it, pressing or skipping inputs after they were seen in the video. The Super Meat Boy wasn't doing that.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#113

Post by tvanantwerp »

kchoudhu wrote: post #46
pattle wrote: post #11

If anyone is interested in speed runs I really recommend this YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w Thy're a series of videos on how world records have been lowered over time on various games. It's fascinating watching particularity the one on Super Mario 64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ePi38LnrA&t=16s

Did you ever see this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A This guy literally has a PhD in SM64. It's insanely complicated, and surprisingly lucid.

I just watched this entirely for the first time. It's incredible that someone would deconstruct a video game so completely just to avoid pressing the A button. Makes me wonder how many other things in the world are possible with the right information and determination.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#115

Post by Loughla »

lostcolony wrote: post #91
recursive wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of evidence can't really ever prove anything.

I think part of is the nature of it. Why would you get sufficiently into this scene, care enough about this one game to post video after video of you speedrunning it, to then cheat? The challenge for someone doing it manually is to do it manually; the challenge for someone doing it TAS is to do it TAS. Without the challenge there is literally no reason to do it. So while lack of evidence can't really prove anything,…

>Without the challenge there is literally no reason to do it.

What about money? Fame? Aren't these reasons?

And there are countless examples from history of 'the best' in whatever area getting caught at cheating just to stay 'the best'. I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#116

Post by berbec »

kibwen wrote: post #84
berbec wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"likely only possible in TAS" has this habit of becoming possible. SethBling turning Super Mario World into Super Flappy Birds on a console comes to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6eY73sLV0

Exactly why I made the conscious choice to use the word "likely". :)

Conscious choice consensus

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#118

Post by dsamarin »

ilitirit wrote: post #24
mrob wrote: post #9

>When Kosmic says he's tied with the TAS run at 4-1, that means his inputs are matched up exactly with the program's and he can't physically do any better. It means he can't physically get a better time, but it does not mean his inputs are matched up exactly with the TAS. SMB1 level transitions are based around the "frame rule", which means you don't advance to the next level until the number of elapsed frames from t…

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

Given 60fps games, with 5 minutes of play, and 8 NES buttons, it seems reasonable to search through just under 4,608,000 possible plays to find the shortest run!

5 mins * 60 fps * 2^8 button possibilities = 4,608,000 button possibility frames = 4,608,000 possible plays

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#119

Post by kamkha »

dsamarin wrote: post #118
ilitirit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

Given 60fps games, with 5 minutes of play, and 8 NES buttons, it seems reasonable to search through just under 4,608,000 possible plays to find the shortest run! 5 mins * 60 fps * 2^8 button possibilities = 4,608,000 button possibility frames = 4,608,000 possible plays

Close! You swapped an operation there: it'd be (2^8 button possibilities) ^ (5 minutes * 60 FPS), or about 10^43348.

A bit of a bigger space to search ;)

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