WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#301

Post by krrrh » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:40 PM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #260

ozgune wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-Facebook, WhatsApp's monetization strategy has been to charge users a nominal fee for usage ($1/year). And $1/yr with 1B users doesn't justify the price tag for Facebook. So Facebook wanted to introduce advertising. PS: I'd be happy to pay them $1/month because a significant part of my communication happens over WhatsApp. The challenge is $1/month is probably too pricey for most of their user base.

The challenge is $1/month is probably too pricey for most of their user base. I was born and raised in a third world country and 99% of my family and friends still live there. Our GDP per capita is around $1,000 (yearly figure). I know people with children who make no more than $150 per month and cannot afford their own apartment. I know people who make even less. I know people who live in villages and probably have…

An important point to add to these observations is that WhatsApp made massive inroads with carriers in developing countries to zero-rate their services (unlimited WhatsApp messages as part of a data plan). This is the underreported aspect of the FB acquisition as these arrangements were immediately parlayed into zero-rating for WhatsApp and Facebook. WhatsApp was so far ahead of Facebook in becoming established in these markets that it posed a real threat. And as you said, $1-24 per year paid to WhatsApp would be only a fraction of what even the poorest mobile phone users pay for their plans.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#302

Post by 8ytecoder » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #298

mort96 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think demonizing the guys behind WhatsApp is entirely warranted. They built up a large userbase around promises of privacy and encryption, and then promptly sold those users to fucking Facebook. Whether they were just gullible and didn't do their due diligence, or if they were malignant, doesn't really make a big difference.

This gets the timeline a bit wrong. WhatsApp’s user base was largely built up during a period of lax security, including unencrypted message databases on Android SD cards, and easily spoofable addresses. The introduction of end-to-end encryption in conjunction with Open Whisper Systems was not until well after the FB acquisition and plans for it were undoubtedly part of the acquisition terms. Contemporaneous to this…

Even prior to that, WhatsApp did not keep the messages in their servers. Yes, that's not the same as encrypting them. However, they were very clear from the beginning that they won't mine the messages for their ad-value.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#303

Post by krrrh » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

madrox wrote: post #163

I'm sure Acton and Koum told themselves they were also keeping the power to be in control. I'm sure they went into it thinking they could avoid this end. The brain is a powerful rationalizer when it sees generational wealth within reach. The indignant tone of the comments here make me laugh. There are very few things I can imagine readers of HN not doing for a billion dollars. People may say otherwise, but until they…

It’s pretty likely that Acton weighed what he could do with the money when it came to pursuing his values post-Facebook. His role in co-founding the Signal foundation and substantial donation to its existence is good evidence of this. A small portion of his fortune could pay for Signal to be free and continue to improve for decades if managed well.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#304

Post by mabbo » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

mort96 wrote: post #228

dasil003 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, 2014 makes no material difference. It's not the recent scandals that have somehow revealed Facebook to be the spiritual successor to Microsoft's "embrace and extend" strategy; this has been obvious for at least a decade. Maybe the public didn't realize it yet, but anyone in tech, especially a successful founding team would have been well aware. That said, I'm not going to demonize these guys. Brian Acton clearly…

I think demonizing the guys behind WhatsApp is entirely warranted. They built up a large userbase around promises of privacy and encryption, and then promptly sold those users to fucking Facebook. Whether they were just gullible and didn't do their due diligence, or if they were malignant, doesn't really make a big difference.

For a few billion dollars, it's pretty easy to see myself doing the same thing.

We're entering a world of a widening disparity between rich and poor. A billion dollars puts you, your children, and their children in the very wealthy side of that line for their entire lives. That's hard to say no to.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#305

Post by 8ytecoder » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #253

verganileonardo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Whatsapp users care about privacy and encryption? How many chose Whatsapp because of that? I believe most users simply use it because it is the most used messaging app in their country

And how many paid a single cent for it?

A LOT. Even in developing countries people paid ₹50 (or the equivalent of a $1). WhatsApp changes this model a bit by partnering with carriers. Unfortunately my memory is not clear on whether that was before or after the acquisition.

Edit: Note: WhatsApp publicly claimed that a billion users paying $1 each is enough for them. Also remember, a lot of the technical complexity, infrastructure requirement and data storage requirements went away in their model of being just a conduit. They had no interest in reading, parsing, mining, storing or monetizing the messages. This let them run it with a lean crew.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#306

Post by krrrh » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

8ytecoder wrote: post #302

krrrh wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets the timeline a bit wrong. WhatsApp’s user base was largely built up during a period of lax security, including unencrypted message databases on Android SD cards, and easily spoofable addresses. The introduction of end-to-end encryption in conjunction with Open Whisper Systems was not until well after the FB acquisition and plans for it were undoubtedly part of the acquisition terms. Contemporaneous to this…

Even prior to that, WhatsApp did not keep the messages in their servers. Yes, that's not the same as encrypting them. However, they were very clear from the beginning that they won't mine the messages for their ad-value.

True, though this decision had the dual-benefit of also reducing the complexity and costs of delivering the service.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#307

Post by josephjrobison » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #304

mort96 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think demonizing the guys behind WhatsApp is entirely warranted. They built up a large userbase around promises of privacy and encryption, and then promptly sold those users to fucking Facebook. Whether they were just gullible and didn't do their due diligence, or if they were malignant, doesn't really make a big difference.

For a few billion dollars, it's pretty easy to see myself doing the same thing. We're entering a world of a widening disparity between rich and poor. A billion dollars puts you, your children, and their children in the very wealthy side of that line for their entire lives. That's hard to say no to.

True on the divide but at the same time the world has never been as rich, prosperous, or secure.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Goalkeepers?WT.mc_id=...

Obviously a very ironic source but the others were more political.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#308

Post by charmides » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #304

mort96 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think demonizing the guys behind WhatsApp is entirely warranted. They built up a large userbase around promises of privacy and encryption, and then promptly sold those users to fucking Facebook. Whether they were just gullible and didn't do their due diligence, or if they were malignant, doesn't really make a big difference.

For a few billion dollars, it's pretty easy to see myself doing the same thing. We're entering a world of a widening disparity between rich and poor. A billion dollars puts you, your children, and their children in the very wealthy side of that line for their entire lives. That's hard to say no to.

Relatable or not, it is still a wrong thing to do and we should strive to be better people during the short time that we are alive.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#309

Post by cortesoft » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #42

mattnewport wrote: post #7

This article seems a little unfair to the WhatsApp founders when it suggests they should have known that any assurances Facebook made to them as part of the acquisition were obviously lies. Sure in 2018 it might be obvious to most of us that nothing Facebook says or promises can be trusted but I don't think that was necessarily as obvious when the acquisition happened and they can be forgiven for thinking they weren'…

Well, yes and no. Back the day, Facebook and Zuckerberg were the shining examples of successful Silicon Valley companies and founders with a good mission. That Zuckerberg, at the young age, managed to retain control of facebook all the way up to, and beyond, the ICO should have given them pause so. That hints a certain personality (no judgement intended in that assessment). But that is 20/20 hindsight which is always…

In 2014? 'The Social Network' came out in 2010, and painted Zuckerberg in a pretty bad light. I don't think he was viewed as a shining example in 2014.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton on Why He Left $850M Behind

#310

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

iagooar wrote: post #232

scarface74 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What year would it be ok to be naive enough to think that any for profit company’s main motivation is not to make as much money possible?

Many companies take pride in serving their customers, more than making as much money as possible.

“Serving customers” just gives them an advantage in their ultimate aim - making money.

Any public company that is not majority owned by one person and is not maximizing their profit is a target of a Carl Icahn type of investor, who will buy up enough shares to force them to maximize profits.