Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company • Hacker News Board

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#21

Post by gowld » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

IBM wrote: post #6

Brian Acton or anyone else feeling guilty about their ad-tech wealth: use your winnings to lobby for a federal privacy bill that is as strong and comprehensive as GDPR (and other EU privacy regulations). The industry is moving to enact something that maintains the status quo [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/26/technology/tech-industry-...

The article is abouta proposal that the US reglate how Google operates in China, quite different from the EU GDPR, which only applies to companies' treatment of EU residents.

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#22

Post by ucaetano » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

rajuvegesna wrote: post #5

Fundamental issue is the expectation that all public companies must keep growing and show profits quarter after quarter, year after year. This is obviously unsustainable. It is like a treadmill that keeps increasing speed. If you slow down, you are thrown out. If consecutive quarterly results are not good, CEO is typically thrown out. This pressure forces management to make unnatural decisions that might help short-t…

> Fundamental issue is the expectation that all public companies must keep growing and show profits quarter after quarter, year after year. This is obviously unsustainable.

Hey, feel free to invest your retirement savings in a company that doesn't grow profits year after year, I'm sure you'll do great!

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#23

Post by pc86 » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

luminiferous wrote: post #14

rajuvegesna wrote: post #5

Fundamental issue is the expectation that all public companies must keep growing and show profits quarter after quarter, year after year. This is obviously unsustainable. It is like a treadmill that keeps increasing speed. If you slow down, you are thrown out. If consecutive quarterly results are not good, CEO is typically thrown out. This pressure forces management to make unnatural decisions that might help short-t…

Obviously, growing every quarter significantly is not sustainable. But growing profits every quarter is how stock price goes up, right? Assuming you don't pay dividends on your stock, if you don't grow profits every quarter then your stock price doesn't go up, and the shareholders (via the board of directors) will sack the CEO. The whole incentive structure for corporations seems to cause the short term thinking that…

You still need to grow by more than the dividend or you will erode share price over time. Nobody invests $100 into a company so that a year from now it is $100, even if they get a couple $2.50 checks throughout the year on top of that.

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#24

Post by ewheeler » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

IBM wrote: post #6

Brian Acton or anyone else feeling guilty about their ad-tech wealth: use your winnings to lobby for a federal privacy bill that is as strong and comprehensive as GDPR (and other EU privacy regulations). The industry is moving to enact something that maintains the status quo [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/26/technology/tech-industry-...

I'd recommend reading more about the 'information fiduciary' approach[1] promoted by Prof Jonathan Zittrain (and others) which I find to be among the most realistic steps in a better direction, as it offers a 'grand bargain' in the spirit of DCMA's 'safe harbor' for companies that choose to commit to putting consumers and their rights above maximizing profit.

[1] https://hbr.org/2018/09/how-to-exercise-the-power-you-didnt-...

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#25

Post by notyourday » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

rajuvegesna wrote: post #5

Fundamental issue is the expectation that all public companies must keep growing and show profits quarter after quarter, year after year. This is obviously unsustainable. It is like a treadmill that keeps increasing speed. If you slow down, you are thrown out. If consecutive quarterly results are not good, CEO is typically thrown out. This pressure forces management to make unnatural decisions that might help short-t…

> Fundamental issue is the expectation that all public companies must keep growing and show profits quarter after quarter, year after year. This is obviously unsustainable.

Not if such executives have controlling interest, which Google's execs do.

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#26

Post by kodablah » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

IBM wrote: post #6

Brian Acton or anyone else feeling guilty about their ad-tech wealth: use your winnings to lobby for a federal privacy bill that is as strong and comprehensive as GDPR (and other EU privacy regulations). The industry is moving to enact something that maintains the status quo [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/26/technology/tech-industry-...

Or don't use your winnings for lobbying for new laws heaped on everyone. Instead, use them to build what you consider the ideal, give grants to promote your principles, finance populace-educating groups, fund pro-privacy thinktanks/projects/foundations, etc. Please don't waste money or time on heavy-handed government internet intervention.

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#27

Post by pg_bot » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

This "broad pattern of unaccountable decision making", also called permissionless innovation, is the reason why America has a culture of innovation. For those unaware, the United States runs on what I call "Air Bud rules", named for this scene from the children's movie.[0] To summarize, as long as there isn't a rule forbidding you from doing something, you can do it.

While I applaud his personal stance on refusing to work on a censored search engine, any solution that requires foregoing independent corporate decision making would be foolish. For those who have been tasked with building tools that support authoritarian regimes, grow a spine, make your voice heard, and quit if necessary. Don't give me any bullshit excuses for continuing, if you know it's wrong stop supporting it!

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvf0WWxrYRM

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#28

Post by gunnihinn » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #7

I actually applaud Poulson for leaving Google in protest of Google's Chinese business practices. Having mentioned that, I think I have to part ways with him when he implies that the correct way to "fix" this is to have the government come in and make these sorts of business decisions for the company. I don't believe in the government obliging businesses to do things. Especially when it looks like this whole thing is…

> Once government gets involved and starts playing favorites, everything gets messed up.

OK.

Is it more or less messed up than that a private corporation can and is willing to perform surveillance on foreign citizens on behalf of those citizens' government that would be unacceptable anywhere else?

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#29

Post by pishpash » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

> “It should be pretty obvious that they should be asked what changed between 2010 and today,” said Cynthia Wong, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch.

What changed is Android, Google is losing a lot more than search, I've heard Android phones don't even work properly there. Apple phones work though.

Re: Ex-Google Employee Urges Lawmakers to Take on Company

#30

Post by partiallypro » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #18

jostmey wrote: post #2

My take in the issue is that Google is being mismanaged. China will not allow a foreign company to compete against its home grown search engines, so why bother? By bowing to Chinese censorship, Google hurts its public image. Google's management should have expected that its employees, who joined Google on the premise of "Do not evil", would leak this to the public. In short, the people at the top of Google look like…

We don't have the whole picture. Chinese might be open to some kind of a deal that could give Google share of the pie for a long time. If Internet really bifurcates and Chinese one spreads across most developing countries, it could pose a risk for Google to be left out of areas with majority of world's population.

Eric Schmidt said in a recent interview that the internet is going to split in two with China's version (censorship) v US's version (openness.) So...company behavior is matching that. I think the problem is that I firmly believe that freedom will win out in the long run. Chinese leadership will lose its grip once reality hits its economy, and Google's view is shortsighted in this regard imo. People will remember who helped suppress. A LOT can change in a decade.