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'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

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Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#101

Post by paulirish »

joshschreuder wrote: post #12
pattle wrote: post #11

If anyone is interested in speed runs I really recommend this YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w Thy're a series of videos on how world records have been lowered over time on various games. It's fascinating watching particularity the one on Super Mario 64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ePi38LnrA&t=16s

Love the SummoningSalt vids and second the recommendation. I just wish there was more as they are so interesting!

Apollo Legend [0] and EZScape [1] are two good channels to consider after binging SummoningSalt. SethBling's [2] Mario hacks should appeal to the HN crowd, too.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5t8u4kpE0WvLxkPWIp8n-g/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIyZiiHXIH7KkqfaDvBmG-Q [2] https://www.youtube.com/user/sethbling/

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#102

Post by emodendroket »

jamespo wrote: post #53
beaconstudios wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tool Assisted Speedrun. It means you perform input to the game programmatically meaning you can set the input perfectly on a per-frame basis.

what is the point of that

If you're just watching it's arguably more fun to watch, since it theoretically represents absolutely perfect play.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#103

Post by apocalyptic0n3 »

ilitirit wrote: post #24
mrob wrote: post #9

>When Kosmic says he's tied with the TAS run at 4-1, that means his inputs are matched up exactly with the program's and he can't physically do any better. It means he can't physically get a better time, but it does not mean his inputs are matched up exactly with the TAS. SMB1 level transitions are based around the "frame rule", which means you don't advance to the next level until the number of elapsed frames from t…

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

For sure. This is what happened with Super Mario World. Someone discovered a glitch that dropped it down to like 20 minutes. Then another one was found that dropped it to 10. Then 5. Then 4. Now, you can beat SMW in under 42 seconds if you do everything correctly. Or you can spend two hours building and playing Flappy Bird in it instead. Either one works

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#104

Post by emodendroket »

Dowwie wrote: post #7

This trivializes my childhood accomplishment. I don't like it! It blows my mind how speed runners learn to exploit the inner workings of a game, from timing hacks of the RNG to positioning actors on the screen to unlock design weaknesses. While it takes a lot of skill and many hours of practice to pull off these exploits, advancing through a game at record speeds through exploits takes away from the experience that w…

You can't do the speed run without first doing a regular run

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#105

Post by msla »

mikepurvis wrote: post #47
ilitirit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

This is, as always, a local maxima— new strats may come along which change everything again. Summoning Salt's WRP videos do a great job of showing how the strategies for a particular game evolve over time as new things are uncovered: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w/vid...

Summoning Salt makes great videos. The SMB1 video has already been linked, but I also love his video on the Choco Mountain track in Mario Kart 64. It has some great livestream captures which show records being broken, and contextualizes them well enough to give them some pathos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y99Wj-NStok

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#106

Post by scoggs »

apocalyptic0n3 wrote: post #103
ilitirit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

For sure. This is what happened with Super Mario World. Someone discovered a glitch that dropped it down to like 20 minutes. Then another one was found that dropped it to 10. Then 5. Then 4. Now, you can beat SMW in under 42 seconds if you do everything correctly. Or you can spend two hours building and playing Flappy Bird in it instead. Either one works

The Flappy Birds stuff is utter madness.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#107

Post by jancsika »

la_oveja wrote: post #35
colordrops wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naw, clipping the wall is taking advantage of a well known intentionally created bug where you walk through a wall to get to an area to skip levels. Every kid playing the game back in the 80s knew about it.

i think you're referring simply to the warp zones, which are accessible with normal jumps. With wall clipping you don't go on top the wall, you go through it. See 1:10 and 2:04 on his video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gum4GI2Jr0s

No, I think he's referring to the technique of wall clipping you can use toward the end of 1-2 before you take the pipe back out to the flag.

Back in the 80s/90s kids would show how you could clip through the wall to the warp zone for two purposes:

1. as an alternative to jumping from the platform to the top of the screen.

2. More importantly, to get to level -1. You can do this because clipping through the wall Mario can arrive at the first warp zone pipe before the game registers that pipe as one of the labeled warp zone pipes. If you instead walk to the warp zone from the top of the screen Mario has to go all the way to the left before dropping down. And that would trigger the normal warp zones everyone is familiar with.

What the speed runners are doing is understanding the mechanics of wall clipping on a much deeper level. Rather than doing it to make Mario "moonwalk" or reach a special warp zone, they do it to push Mario forward on the screen. This allows them to do stuff like "wrong warp" and shave some frames off of their time to beat the game faster.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#110

Post by UncleMeat »

lostcolony wrote: post #91
recursive wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of evidence can't really ever prove anything.

I think part of is the nature of it. Why would you get sufficiently into this scene, care enough about this one game to post video after video of you speedrunning it, to then cheat? The challenge for someone doing it manually is to do it manually; the challenge for someone doing it TAS is to do it TAS. Without the challenge there is literally no reason to do it. So while lack of evidence can't really prove anything,…

Actually plenty of people who have been deep in the community have cheated. It happens. But given that this run was performed live during a stream where he is reacting to chat it is pretty unlikely that he was doing playbacks of the entire stream.
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