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Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

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Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#11

Post by volak »

WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #4

There's a better solution: Stop collecting and keeping personal data. I can't even read this article without using firefox reader mode to skip the cookie warning / prompt (this works for a lot of sites!). That's a choice that techdirt make. By framing it as an unavoidable consequence of the cookie legislation or GDPR moves the focus to the wrong place.

Collecting data subsidizes the cost of the service.

Would facebook have 1 billion users if it cost $5.99 a month?

Data collection is not going anywhere, so long as people are willing (even unknowingly) to give up info for a perceived discount.

Now here - fill out my form with your address, email, phone, photo id, and passport number for a chance to win a brand new 2019 Honda!

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#12

Post by Aardwolf »

icebraining wrote: post #10
Aardwolf wrote: post #2

That's like how the EU Cookie law gives incentive to enable cookies: Disable cookies? See annoying useless cookie warnings all the time everywhere! You have to enable cookies to make it remember not to spam you with the warnings EDIT: and good point in the article, one may wonder how making it easier to request data helps to improve privacy

No. Cookies required to do something the user asked do not require consent. This is solely on the lazy and/or dishonest webdevs. See http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm#se...

Before the cookie law websites did not have annoying useless cookie popups though, so it's an unintended consequence

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#13

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

volak wrote: post #11
WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #4

There's a better solution: Stop collecting and keeping personal data. I can't even read this article without using firefox reader mode to skip the cookie warning / prompt (this works for a lot of sites!). That's a choice that techdirt make. By framing it as an unavoidable consequence of the cookie legislation or GDPR moves the focus to the wrong place.

Collecting data subsidizes the cost of the service. Would facebook have 1 billion users if it cost $5.99 a month? Data collection is not going anywhere, so long as people are willing (even unknowingly) to give up info for a perceived discount. Now here - fill out my form with your address, email, phone, photo id, and passport number for a chance to win a brand new 2019 Honda!

>Data collection is not going anywhere, so long as people are willing (even unknowingly) to give up info for a perceived discount.

People are willing in large part because they have no clue what their data is actually worth and/or what pieces of their data are actually out there. Data collection survives because people don't realize they're already paying $5.99 a month (or whatever the real breakeven number is.)

I think it's a pretty good rule of markets that people should know what it is they're exchanging. To that end I should be able to see what these companies gather on me when I use their service.

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#14

Post by misabon »

WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #4

There's a better solution: Stop collecting and keeping personal data. I can't even read this article without using firefox reader mode to skip the cookie warning / prompt (this works for a lot of sites!). That's a choice that techdirt make. By framing it as an unavoidable consequence of the cookie legislation or GDPR moves the focus to the wrong place.

Dude, Spotify is a song streaming service. Holding on to song history is one of the features they offer. Lyft and Uber are taxi services. Holding on to history is a feature. Go start your own privacy car if you want. I’m not in favour of this world where you privacy first people want all these features removed from applications I use.

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#15

Post by s73v3r_ »

misabon wrote: post #14
WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #4

There's a better solution: Stop collecting and keeping personal data. I can't even read this article without using firefox reader mode to skip the cookie warning / prompt (this works for a lot of sites!). That's a choice that techdirt make. By framing it as an unavoidable consequence of the cookie legislation or GDPR moves the focus to the wrong place.

Dude, Spotify is a song streaming service. Holding on to song history is one of the features they offer. Lyft and Uber are taxi services. Holding on to history is a feature. Go start your own privacy car if you want. I’m not in favour of this world where you privacy first people want all these features removed from applications I use.

Or, better yet, why don't those companies ask before keeping all this data?

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#16

Post by misabon »

icebraining wrote: post #10
Aardwolf wrote: post #2

That's like how the EU Cookie law gives incentive to enable cookies: Disable cookies? See annoying useless cookie warnings all the time everywhere! You have to enable cookies to make it remember not to spam you with the warnings EDIT: and good point in the article, one may wonder how making it easier to request data helps to improve privacy

No. Cookies required to do something the user asked do not require consent. This is solely on the lazy and/or dishonest webdevs. See http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm#se...

Yeah, dude, if I know users are going to not penalize me for this and the government is going to fine me 250k a day for it, I’m going to put it up. That isn’t lazy. That’s just time optimization.

No one’s going to fine me for blanket adding the feature so that’s fine.

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#17

Post by emiliobumachar »

amaccuish wrote: post #6

TL;DR, someone who has gained access to your account can also download your account history. It's like complaining that someone who "hacks" into your email account can download all your email.

It's not like that at all.

Email history is a useful feature. You're at risk of unauthorized access to it in exchange for that useful feature. Anyone could theoretically offer a service without that feature, though there might not be demand for it. (then again, see mailinator.com)

Everything-history is a compliance feature. You're at risk of unauthorized access to it in exchange for compliance with the law. Offering a service without that feature would be illegal.

It's entirely fair to blame the increased risk on the law. The law's benefit might outweigh those costs, but pretending that the costs do not exist serves no one.

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#18

Post by s73v3r_ »

Aardwolf wrote: post #12
icebraining wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Cookies required to do something the user asked do not require consent. This is solely on the lazy and/or dishonest webdevs. See http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm#se...

Before the cookie law websites did not have annoying useless cookie popups though, so it's an unintended consequence

No, it's more the bratty kid on the playground who isn't getting their way, so they're throwing a fit and threatening to take their ball and go home.

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#19

Post by harshreality »

misabon wrote: post #16
icebraining wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Cookies required to do something the user asked do not require consent. This is solely on the lazy and/or dishonest webdevs. See http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm#se...

Yeah, dude, if I know users are going to not penalize me for this and the government is going to fine me 250k a day for it, I’m going to put it up. That isn’t lazy. That’s just time optimization. No one’s going to fine me for blanket adding the feature so that’s fine.

You lose money when everyone browsing in incognito/tor/cookie-blocking sessions gets the damned cookie warning every visit, and eventually tires of your site's nagging and goes somewhere else. Or maybe you don't, maybe those users had 17 ad blockers and you don't lose a dime, but it certainly hurts your company's goodwill to have less eyeballs.

If users don't bounce, is that based on short-term or long-term research?

Re: Unintended Consequences: How the GDPR Can Undermine Privacy

#20

Post by misabon »

harshreality wrote: post #19
misabon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, dude, if I know users are going to not penalize me for this and the government is going to fine me 250k a day for it, I’m going to put it up. That isn’t lazy. That’s just time optimization. No one’s going to fine me for blanket adding the feature so that’s fine.

You lose money when everyone browsing in incognito/tor/cookie-blocking sessions gets the damned cookie warning every visit, and eventually tires of your site's nagging and goes somewhere else. Or maybe you don't, maybe those users had 17 ad blockers and you don't lose a dime, but it certainly hurts your company's goodwill to have less eyeballs. If users don't bounce, is that based on short-term or long-term research?

Users don’t behave that way. I don’t care about the incognito dudes. Cookie warnings are so passé that all users have trained themselves to always accept. That’s what my user research shows.

Fears of bounces over cookie warnings are overstated. Users do not care.

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