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Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

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Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#111
post #106
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've lived in Paris, Berlin, NYC and California. I'll never understand how European founders can keep saying that 40k euro salaries for engineers is a benefit while they watch so many great engineers leave to American companies. This. I have tasted the fruit and I'm never going back. The social benefits feel largely like gimmicks compared to the standard of living + social recognition you get working as an engineer…

> The social benefits feel largely like gimmicks Until they or their wives become pregnant. Then suddenly those immigrants feel the need to come back for some years.

Yup! I've met so many people who moved back to Norway/Sweden from the US just before their first kid was born.

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#112
post #107
post #8

My opinion : the low salaries of engineers, high taxes and bureaucracy hold back the startup scene. Also, the mentality toward technical positions, in France if you didn't go from engineer to manager by 35 year old people wonder what's wrong with you. https://imgur.com/a/MOlau0V

Is this before or after tax? Because it it's before tax and you take the avg salary and substract taxes you'll end up with a quite different picture with the USA, Israel and Switzerland ending up on top and France at the bottom.

That is true. In Zurich a mid level engineer with 3 years of experience can earn 6600 EUR after taxes. See my blogpost that I wrote after moving here "Nine reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in IT" (https://bit.ly/2GNlJcA)

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#113
post #15

France has plenty of early stage startups, in fact the increase in size and quality in their ecosystem in just a few years has been very impressive. What’s missing in France right now is an ecosystem of fast-growing mid-stage startups - series B and above. I think that’s caused by a combination of: 1) mindset (thinking globally from say one is easier said than done when nobody around you has done it before) 2) lack o…

What everyone is missing is.

In Europe, why would an entrepreneur work hard? There is strong safety net provided by the Welfare state, it's simply not worth the risk.

No risk of going homeless if you fail. It's easier to give up.

Remove safety net, remove free healthcare, increase wages, remove payroll taxes, remove immigration restriction, add property rights so that foreigners can buy land and see the startups blossom.

It is as simple as that.

But pretty sure, most European will not be voting for this.

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#114
post #56

I am French, moved to the UK a few years ago. There are many cultural issues that will prevent France from ever becoming a startup nation. One of them is the fact that there's this idea floating around where you have to have higher education (Bac +5, aka 5 years of uni) to do anything even remotely related to IT, as if it was some kind of rocket science (where a degree would actually help). In fact, the first thing m…

French expat on the west coast here, I totally agree with you on the social stigma of being a "rank-and-file" developer.

French expat in Australia here. In Australia, it is about what you can do, not about what piece of paper you carry with you that matters when getting a job.

I looked at job boards the other day to see what kind of role somebody like me could get in France: As a senior dev, good luck getting more than 60K gross per year in Paris with the rents starting at 1k per month for a 1 bedroom apartment in a shitty district!

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#115
post #15

France has plenty of early stage startups, in fact the increase in size and quality in their ecosystem in just a few years has been very impressive. What’s missing in France right now is an ecosystem of fast-growing mid-stage startups - series B and above. I think that’s caused by a combination of: 1) mindset (thinking globally from say one is easier said than done when nobody around you has done it before) 2) lack o…

Agree with the analysis of funding you provide. Concerning mindset, I think there's an even bigger cultural trait that's holding back French entrepreneurship: a complete absence of a "culture of failure". By and large, French culture is one of fixed mindset. Mistakes/errors/failures reveal one's limitations or flaws, and aren't perceived as an opportunity to learn and grow. This starts very early and is very much bak…

This is true, although in slight compensation, there is a true culture of dissent. It is common in the US to have to be an all-in cheerleader for whatever the current project is, until it fails, then everyone dusts themself off and hops back on. French people are quite bad at the dusting-off, but they also don't usually let their colleagues attempt to win a horse race while mounted on a pony.

Because French engineers are also more educated on average than US engineers, and French school ratings more predictive of the IQ of their incoming crop than of their "leadership" or whatever the current US proxy for socioeconomic status is, having a minority of French engineers in a team to point out obvious points of failures can be a definite advantage.

Personally I prefer American managers though, I feel the can-do culture is just better for management. Plus French people tend to have a lot of respect for older people or people further up in the hierarchy so in a mixed hierarchy (with the Americans at the top) usually your French guys will move towards becoming self-starters in their bosses' images, whereas the reverse is not necessarily true and American underlings tend to perceive a French boss's nitpicking or challenging of their strategy as micromanagement and undermining.

I think this last part is one of the great remaining challenges of France as a nation of great enterprise. It is very, very difficult for non-French people to feel comfortable in a company born of French senior management and culture. They just don't get some of the tone and French management can be very backwards compared to the commonly accepted leadership forms today. Hopefully, French children today are seeing a very different picture of what it means to be in charge thanks to exchange programs, higher education and a greater involvement from the EU, and they will grow to be leaders who are not afraid of hiring whole teams from other countries and letting them have autonomy and who do not make their teams afraid of them.

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#116
post #19

As an independent observer (VC; background in investing both in the US & Europe, currently based out of London) - the French ecosystem has transformed massively over the last few years, it's essentially unrecognizable from what it used to be. Historically French startups were relatively insular, primarily focusing on the French market while largely ignoring the larger global market. That's long gone - now you see Fre…

Yeah, I was very impressed when a little over a year ago the French American Chamber of Commerce came to reach out to startups at Station Houston about working in France.

Not sure what the downvotes were for...?

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#117
post #15

France has plenty of early stage startups, in fact the increase in size and quality in their ecosystem in just a few years has been very impressive. What’s missing in France right now is an ecosystem of fast-growing mid-stage startups - series B and above. I think that’s caused by a combination of: 1) mindset (thinking globally from say one is easier said than done when nobody around you has done it before) 2) lack o…

What everyone is missing is. In Europe, why would an entrepreneur work hard? There is strong safety net provided by the Welfare state, it's simply not worth the risk. No risk of going homeless if you fail. It's easier to give up. Remove safety net, remove free healthcare, increase wages, remove payroll taxes, remove immigration restriction, add property rights so that foreigners can buy land and see the startups blos…

Yes, we're certainly not voting for that. No single payer healthcare ? No thank you. What an horrible idea.

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#118
post #15

France has plenty of early stage startups, in fact the increase in size and quality in their ecosystem in just a few years has been very impressive. What’s missing in France right now is an ecosystem of fast-growing mid-stage startups - series B and above. I think that’s caused by a combination of: 1) mindset (thinking globally from say one is easier said than done when nobody around you has done it before) 2) lack o…

What everyone is missing is. In Europe, why would an entrepreneur work hard? There is strong safety net provided by the Welfare state, it's simply not worth the risk. No risk of going homeless if you fail. It's easier to give up. Remove safety net, remove free healthcare, increase wages, remove payroll taxes, remove immigration restriction, add property rights so that foreigners can buy land and see the startups blos…

What a bullshit. You don't have to be a neo-liberal hellhole to attract successful entrepreneurs.

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#119
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shh don't tell them. ;) In Kansas City I rent a _house_ with a large back yard within walking distance from a lot of neat things. I've built a metal working shop in my basement and a forge out back. My rent is 700$ a month. Work the first day of the month pays that if I take a long lunch. Every SF salary range I see is significantly below what I made last year. I'm not even taking cost of living into consideration he…

> I've built a metal working shop in my basement and a forge out back. My rent is 700$ a month. Making major capital investments in the property is actually something I would consider a reason to purchase rather than renting. Can you say more about your thought process there? > If you're in tech move west, definitely. ...west? Did you mean east?

My forge and tools aren't permanent installations.

Re: Startup Nation? Entrepreneurs Still Toil in Macron's France

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What everyone is missing is. In Europe, why would an entrepreneur work hard? There is strong safety net provided by the Welfare state, it's simply not worth the risk. No risk of going homeless if you fail. It's easier to give up. Remove safety net, remove free healthcare, increase wages, remove payroll taxes, remove immigration restriction, add property rights so that foreigners can buy land and see the startups blos…

What a bullshit. You don't have to be a neo-liberal hellhole to attract successful entrepreneurs.

> You don't have to be a neo-liberal hellhole to attract successful entrepreneurs

What do you think Enterprenure leverage?

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