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Oracle’s Java 11 trap

blog.joda.org

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Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#61

Post by philbarr »

ofrzeta wrote: post #27
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer Really ? What is the Go equivalent of J2EE ? Do Go appservers exist that offer all the features that something like Payara (Glassfish), JBoss or WebSphere does ?

What's the point of J2EE or an application server? You can get functionality such as templates, management, monitoring, persistence through other means as well.

For Go, what are those means? (I'm just starting with Go so it would be useful to see how we get all that stuff)

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#62

Post by Leace »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #48
raverbashing wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the Go equivalent of J2EE ? I consider not having a suffocating bureaucratic "framework" that can be replaced by simpler and more straightforward constructs most of the time a feature and not a bug But those that grow up under a bureaucracy tend to miss it

The parent said Go has all that Java has to offer. I would be surprised if the standard library was in the same magnitude of size.

Yes, exactly. Having used Java and many other languages for years Java's strongest point is tooling - there are high quality tools for any aspect of software lifecycle. A lot of them available for free.

Of course new languages are quickly getting more and more tools but sometimes I feel that they are just reinventing the wheel (sometimes squared). For example: it's easy to host a mirror Maven repository, the file structure is very simple, even with per-project setting. It's not that straightforward with npm or cargo, they push you into centralized model with paid private repositories (npm).

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#63

Post by carlmr »

koolba wrote: post #38
wheresvic1 wrote: post #16

I'm not sure Java is worth the effort at this point. If I'm going to have to keep updating every 6 months, I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer + the backing of a huge corporation.

How is that any different than updating a Go app? If a security issue arises in an older version of Go, it doesn’t magically fix in your app until you recompile it. Java also has a multi decade history of remaining backwards compatible across major version upgrades. Barring known exceptions for things explicitly being removed, I don’t see that changing.

>Java also has a multi decade history of remaining backwards compatible across major version upgrades.

And Google has a history of starting and scrapping products without much attention to the remaining userbase. I'm not saying Go is one of these.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#64

Post by gutnor »

wheresvic1 wrote: post #16

I'm not sure Java is worth the effort at this point. If I'm going to have to keep updating every 6 months, I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer + the backing of a huge corporation.

Java has 2 release cycles. A yearly release with all the latest and greatest available without waiting but whose support stops right after the next release is out. Java 9 went out of support when 10 was released and 10 went out of support when 11 was released.

Then there is still the regular one, release that get support for a very long time. That LTS releases and Java 11 is the first LTS release since Java 8. Java 8 will still be supported for a while even though Java 11 is out, giving you years to update.

So basically if you like how it worked before, in the days of Java 1.4, 5, 6, ... you just need to only look at LTS releases.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#65

Post by grey-area »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #21
wheresvic1 wrote: post #16

I'm not sure Java is worth the effort at this point. If I'm going to have to keep updating every 6 months, I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer + the backing of a huge corporation.

> I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer Really ? What is the Go equivalent of J2EE ? Do Go appservers exist that offer all the features that something like Payara (Glassfish), JBoss or WebSphere does ?

What is the Go equivalent of J2EE?

無

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#66

Post by crispyambulance »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #52

This is going to come off sounding a bit like victim blaming, but seriously, any business large or small must have a person or people whose responsibility it is to audit all installed software so that nobody gets into a situation such as described in the article. A business cant afford to let devs just install software willy-nilly like.

Yet "willy-nilly" installations happen.

It remains to be seen whether they'll "go after" the whales who can actually afford compliance staff (but screwed up anyway), or after the small-fish companies that just stood up a web-app to get started, or businesses in between.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#67

Post by ofrzeta »

philbarr wrote: post #61
ofrzeta wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of J2EE or an application server? You can get functionality such as templates, management, monitoring, persistence through other means as well.

For Go, what are those means? (I'm just starting with Go so it would be useful to see how we get all that stuff)

Go templates come with the standard library, an ORM could be GORM, for monitoring you can get metrics of the runtime through the package of the same name also in the standard library or on an application level use the Prometheus client API to make your application talk to the Prometheus monitoring system.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#68

Post by jodastephen »

pimlottc wrote: post #39
Tistel wrote: post #33

My hat is off to Larry E. with respect to his business prowess. But. ding ding ding. alarm bells. Run away. Don't mess with that guy. The dude owns an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanai https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-04-13/four-seas... Stick with free/open source. Vendor lock in is a nightmare. edited for clarity.

You should clarify that you are referring to Larry Ellison, the head of Oracle, and not Stephen Colebourne, author of the article.

Yes, I definitely don't own an island!

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#69

Post by lclarkmichalek »

carlmr wrote: post #63
koolba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that any different than updating a Go app? If a security issue arises in an older version of Go, it doesn’t magically fix in your app until you recompile it. Java also has a multi decade history of remaining backwards compatible across major version upgrades. Barring known exceptions for things explicitly being removed, I don’t see that changing.

>Java also has a multi decade history of remaining backwards compatible across major version upgrades. And Google has a history of starting and scrapping products without much attention to the remaining userbase. I'm not saying Go is one of these.

Then what are you saying?

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#70

Post by foolfoolz »

This sounds like total FUD. Sure the terms have changed but oracle has been open about it and told people to download openjdk. If you are going to run a commercial business and not pay any attention to the software you depend on and it’s licenses then you have another problem.
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