Link to PNAS research paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/09/19/1811940115 Human Endogenous Retrovirus-K HML-2 integration within RASGRF2 is associated with intravenous drug abuse and modulates transcription in a cell-line model Not all humans have the same HK2 viruses in their genomes. Here we show that one specific uncommon HK2, which lies close to a gene involved in dopaminergic activity in the brain, is…
Very sensible that the mutation relates to the dopaminergic activity, just based on our knowledge of the reward pathway and the effect of addictive drugs on dopamine. There may even been a positive feedback loop here, as any viral gene inserted that increases risky, impulsive behavior may also encourage procreation.
Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
211–220 of 229 posts
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're a substance dualist, then? The obvious opposing view to what you've just expressed would be that you are your body, and that what you just described as your true self is merely one part of you introspecting about another part of you. And of course, as far as I'm aware science can say nothing convincing about all of this at present so it's purely an exercise in philosophy and logic.
> You're a substance dualist, then? Not really, I am a non-dualist actually but introducing non-duality in the current context would be a way too off-topic and unnecessary. I prefer not to go into the spiritual stuff beyond what can be easily experienced by everyone unless asked by a person specifically interested in this kind of information. > it's purely an exercise in philosophy and logic It's not. It's of little…
> It's of little use as long as it is.
I didn't mean to imply uselessness; my previous comment was worded poorly. Aside from the spiritual aspects, logic and philosophy alone often manage to achieve (or form the basis of) incredibly useful things.
> the whole clue is a thing we can experience directly
The trouble I have with this is that trying to differentiate between "true self is separate from body" and "body is all there is" based on an experience seems to beg the question. If the former is true, then the experience is what it seems. But if the latter is true, then the experience itself is yet another bodily event - one that results in you (the body in this case) coming away with a false understanding.
A parallel might be someone who feels quite certain about a fact (ie experiences a sense of knowledge), but that "knowledge" later turns out to be false. In light of this, how can we use a direct experience to differentiate the above?
Of course this line of reasoning can be (repeatedly) applied to anything, so at some point I suppose we just have to accept that there are enough separate lines of evidence and that something is presumably true. But I don't think a single direct experience which itself involves the system in question (ie the body) is enough.
As an aside, my rambling on about unknowable-ness isn't intended as an attack against your interpretation of things but rather just general pondering of the (current?) limits of human knowledge and experience.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#213This so reminds me of the Asherah virus in the great book SnowCrash by Neal Stephenson. That book is still one of my favorite SFF books ever.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably because it helps people? If it is useful in helping people to not harm themselves and others then I don't see anything wrong with that.
> If it is useful in helping people to not harm themselves and others this is a big if. the way AA is structured (they don't themselves collect any statistics about efficacy whatsoever) makes it extremely difficult to draw any conclusions about how helpful it is. as other people have said, AA essentially provides free group therapy, which is likely to be at least slightly helpful. i'm not sure there's any evidence to…
[1] The Power of Habit, by Charles Duhigg : while not scientifically spotless, the book directly addresses the methods of AA. To successfully establish a change in habit, one needs a belief that I can change : there is some sound evidence presented in the book.
Smart Change, by Art Marckman : he is literally a scientist and I can't find anything scientifically incorrect in this book. He also mentions and gives evidence for the advantage of belief in one's ability to change : here the context is not directly AA.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You're a substance dualist, then? Not really, I am a non-dualist actually but introducing non-duality in the current context would be a way too off-topic and unnecessary. I prefer not to go into the spiritual stuff beyond what can be easily experienced by everyone unless asked by a person specifically interested in this kind of information. > it's purely an exercise in philosophy and logic It's not. It's of little…
>> it's purely an exercise in philosophy and logic > It's of little use as long as it is. I didn't mean to imply uselessness; my previous comment was worded poorly. Aside from the spiritual aspects, logic and philosophy alone often manage to achieve (or form the basis of) incredibly useful things. > the whole clue is a thing we can experience directly The trouble I have with this is that trying to differentiate betwe…
It seems that I will have to introduce the actual Buddhist (Nyingma/Bön Dzogchen) non-duality interpretation of this in a more or less simplified way to make it (including the "We are all Kosh" part) more clear but be warned, it may sound a way too bizarre. I don't insist it's true and my initial intention was to leave it for the people interested in going this way to discover on themselves as it makes little if any sense before the experience. Ready? The "true self" you can directly perceive this way is just one for every sentient being (my true self = your true self, "by reference" not just "by value", it's the same object, not just same class) and it is kind of the absolute, the only thing that actually exists, everything else (including our feelings and beliefs (our ego), bodies, cars, events and everything) is an emanation of it, like a wave on the surface of a lake. The idea of everything being just an emanation of yourself seems less weird or even rationally obvious if you apply this to "everything in your dreams" but the real life is considered to be a phenomenon of little fundamental difference from a dream. I am not a real guru and may probably explain the things wrong so whoever interested should better watch a lecture of the actual Buddhist (Bön) teacher[1] (it's rather fun, easy to listen and made as free of any religious mumbo-jumbo as possible, the chant in the beginning is very short but the guided meditation that follows the introductory speech is important).
Obviously, the interpretation of a skeptic materialist capable to experience this "true self" and observe their ego is going to be it hardly has anything to do with any kind of absolute and probably is not a real object (needless to say shared between everybody) but just a sort of feeling produced by our bodies.
I believe neither of these interpretations can be rationally proven correct or wrong (it's a transcendental matter) but regardless to which one do you stick to it seems fairly easy to recognize that your feelings, your beliefs, your addictions, your DNA and dopamine receptors are you in the same degree as your left hand thumb is.
Keeping consciously aware of this as constantly as possible may gift a person with an amazing level of emotional balance and having the direct experience of "the true self" can strengthen it to an incredible level (and as a bonus probably let you actually feel less pain when it hurts physically[2]). Deep recognition of the Buddhist interpretation ("rigpa") also gives an awesome sense of union with everybody and everything, blissful presence in every single moment and sets your free of sorrow and worrying.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what _nardi_ is trying to say is that there's no functional difference between having free will, and acting as if you do. What decisions do you make differently with your knowledge that free will is an illusion? What choices do you make differently? (fwiw, I agree with you; I just think it doesn't particularly matter now.)
Well your ethics should shift considerably. Retributive justice is morally repugnant for someone who does not believe in absolute free will.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe in free will because of a simple thought experiment. Maybe someone with a background in ML can chime in. Imagine we could perfectly map all your brain's neural connections at an instant in time to software. This is not out of the realm of possibility in the future, right? Now imagine we "asked" that model to make a decision. Any decision. Wouldn't that frozen-in-time model give the same answer every t…
This is not possible because of quantum mechanics. You cannot know the exact location and speed of particles in your brain and therefore cannot build a deterministic model to predict its behavior.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is. But there are psychopaths out there who simply don't do violence out of fear from counterviolence. Remove the threat with social works and they laugh about it. So in general I agree, that there are better methods than punishment, but for some it works.
We should take incidence rate of such characteristics into account before proscribing general approaches
Humanism is a relativly new concept. One worth pursuing, but maybe not blinded by idealism.
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
While that might be true today, I don't agree that increasing risk-taking behaviors was evolutionarily advantageous past some equilibrium (otherwise, we'd have a new equilibrium).
Depends whether you consider this to be evolutionary advantageous to us or the virus/bacteria...similar example from toxoplasmosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis Geoffrey West touches upon some of this stuff in scale - its worth a read https://www.amazon.com/Scale-Universal-Innovation-Sustainabi... Oversimplification is that some of the viruses / genetic defects that kill us later let us live long enough…
With regard to addictive behaviour, some research has suggested addictions are neuro amine addictions, ie andrenaline, dopamine & serotonin. Cocaine for example last in the body for upto 2hrs and amplifies dopamine and serotonin, so being addicted to feeling good is understandable, however serotonin also plays a part in the innate immune system and the association between depression and illness has also long been known. The medical profession SSRI's inhibit the uptake of serotonin in the brain, which reduces the brains ability to convert it into melatonin (4x more potent than Vit C), plus not much can cross the blood brain barrier so the adapative immune can not work in the brain, eyes, gonads, ovaries. So whilst SSRI's can make you feel good, like everything in life it can also have its side effects because we are a bundle of realtime complex pathways oscillating in time and space.
One other point of risk taking behaviour, some of you may have noticed when you feel like you are going down with something like a cold or flu, you may also feel the need to procreate before the illness takes hold. This would suggest an evolutionary response to pass on genes, but excessive amounts of chemicals which can harm the body can also cause this behaviour as well, illegal drugs & alcohol being examples. ie did you know that smokers have elevated levels of copper in their blood stream? This is probably due to the need to deal with the risk of foreign bodies coming into the blood stream through the lungs, but copper and iron is also required to prevent anemia, which in turn is required to make red blood cells, plus its also known that elite atheletes, people living at high altitude and smokers have enlarged red blood cells. Plus smoking can also be a form of self medication if an asthma inhaler is not available, asthma being a type of allergic reaction to debris or pathogens inhaled, most commonly being from pets or pollution. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17435678 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17435678
Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well your ethics should shift considerably. Retributive justice is morally repugnant for someone who does not believe in absolute free will.
The existence of punishment changes the inputs to the system and, thus, changes the outputs of the system. The system in this case being the mind and it's output being behavior.