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Anatomy of a Killing

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Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#91

Post by ascorbic »

aidos wrote: post #17

Incredible bit of analysis and presentation. It's hard to watch this sort of footage for me now. Once upon a time when I was younger I could handle it, but with young children the same sort of age it really tears me apart. Though, I think people should be forced to confront it, because it's the only way it's ever going to improve.

Yes, this is one of the things that most surprised me about having kids. I know it sounds trite and insufferable to say "I didn't understand until I had children", but I have totally lost the ability to deal with seeing anything involving harm to children. It really came home to me a few years ago when I was watching the news and literally burst into tears when this image came on[1]. I'd never had anything like that happen before, and I was really shocked at my reaction. Even now, searching for that link, I found it hard to keep it together. I saw the BBC thread when it was first posted, and it's an incredible piece of reporting, but I was very careful to not watch the video.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#92

Post by neuroptera »

sulam wrote: post #71
emmelaich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No presumption of innocence was extended to the children who died with them." So, would it be better if they held a trial and then killed them? Does anyone believe that their innocence or otherwise has anything to do with them being killed? Are there circumstances that make you think that the killing of children is OK? It's at least a non-sequitur, possibly self-aggrandising yellow journalism and at worst it could…

You know what gives me the creeps? People who watch that video and read those facts and choose to focus on the tone of the closing tweet.

Well-put. To state that our ethical standard must be vigilantly maintained goes without saying. To put the treatment of these cold-blooded killers first is unnerving at best.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#93

Post by trolleyhacker »

cylinder wrote: post #73
mcguire wrote: post #54

A brilliant piece of work to place the location. On the other hand, this seems to be...below...the BBC: " The government statement makes clear that all these men enjoy the presumption of innocence, and that they will be given a fair trial. " " The two women killed outside Zelevet received no trial at all. " No presumption of innocence was extended to the children who died with them. "

Those are facts, not opinions. What's the issue?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_principle#Maxim_of...

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#94

Post by dtf »

mcguire wrote: post #54

A brilliant piece of work to place the location. On the other hand, this seems to be...below...the BBC: " The government statement makes clear that all these men enjoy the presumption of innocence, and that they will be given a fair trial. " " The two women killed outside Zelevet received no trial at all. " No presumption of innocence was extended to the children who died with them. "

Those final statements on the Twitter thread stuck out for me too - they seemed a little incongruous. But they're taken (as is the entire thread) from the BBC Africa video, where they actually make perfect sense as the closing remarks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbnLkc6r3yc

I'm not sure whether it's the medium (Twitter), or the lack of editing that makes them jar in the thread.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#96

Post by MisterOctober »

abalone wrote: post #56
aidos wrote: post #17

Incredible bit of analysis and presentation. It's hard to watch this sort of footage for me now. Once upon a time when I was younger I could handle it, but with young children the same sort of age it really tears me apart. Though, I think people should be forced to confront it, because it's the only way it's ever going to improve.

Totally. In terms of handling it, there was a French horror film "Inside" which is very good but involves attacking a pregnant woman. After having kids I found I just couldn't stomach it, which was a change. Same for Sicario's child murder scene which I found just terribly lazy and desperate to be "edgy" and all these rave reviews just pissed me off. Having kids definitely over sensitized me.. in a good way.

Yep -- same with 'Macbeth' for me [the Macduff castle scene] -- especially the recent Stewart version

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#97

Post by hbosch »

apo wrote: post #22

I can't imagine this kind of analysis carrying much weight in 3-5 years as advances in machine learning and image manipulation turn the notion of "seeing is believing" on its head. edit: Imagine running this process in reverse. Pick the culprit, time, and location. Then arrange the scene to exactly match the false accusation. Probably didn't happen here, but in a few years it won't be possible to know the difference.

> Pick the culprit, time, and location. Then arrange the scene to exactly match the false accusation.

Ah yes, but I logged on to Facebook at 8:12am and scrolled my news feed for a moment when I clicked a Chevrolet ad at exactly 8:15am (Facebook knows). I watched the video for exactly 12 seconds (Facebook still knows), then texted to my wife at 8:16am that we should think about getting a new car. I open up Reddit and log in at 8:17am and comment in /r/cars at 8:25 (Reddit knows). I started my Tesla at 8:32am and drove for 28 minutes (Tesla knows) to a Whole Foods, where I saved the location of my parked car (at almost exactly 9:00am) and entered the store. Grabbed a cold brew in a can and paid with my Visa card at 9:04 am (Visa knows), then walked to my office building and badged in through the door at 9:18 (my company knows), just in time to log on to the corporate network and send off a couple e-mails at 9:25, 9:26, and 9:29am. My whole day is tracked, timestamped and corroborated by third-parties already!

If we were able to easily collate the data that our workplaces, our GPS, our phones have on us it would be virtually impossible to place someone in a place they are not! And to go full dystopian, it's not too big a stretch to imagine the government would love to have exactly this.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#98

Post by natalyarostova »

sulam wrote: post #71
emmelaich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No presumption of innocence was extended to the children who died with them." So, would it be better if they held a trial and then killed them? Does anyone believe that their innocence or otherwise has anything to do with them being killed? Are there circumstances that make you think that the killing of children is OK? It's at least a non-sequitur, possibly self-aggrandising yellow journalism and at worst it could…

You know what gives me the creeps? People who watch that video and read those facts and choose to focus on the tone of the closing tweet.

Why? It's worth pointing out. Just because some topic is emotionally heavy, doesn't mean other aspects of it can't or shouldn't be pointed out. It bothers me when someone may make a noteworthy point, and then someone else tries to make some inference on how they feel in general by compliment of what they didn't reference.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#99

Post by segmondy »

endersshadow wrote: post #49
tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They murdered two children.

Yes, but why? They're up there fighting Boko Haram -- this is a war-torn part of the world. Why is the Cameroonian military killing the people they're charged with protecting? It's something I'd really like to know, after reading through this. I don't understand anything but the most superficial issues facing this region, and it rather shocked me that the national military that's up there to quell the Boko Haram insu…

The french population doesn't like the English population. The English part is a minority and feel like a 2nd class citizen in their own country. A lot of them are being killed, you can google these answers. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-africa-44459488/cameroon-c...

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#100

Post by cm2187 »

x220 wrote: post #19

They should not edit out the end of the video. People should know how harsh the world can get.

In France the far right leader is being prosecuted for “promoting terrorism” for having shown a killing video from ISIS to condemn it. I can see why people would be shy about showing the actual violence.
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