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Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#11

Post by smnrchrds »

IBM wrote: post #3

Sanctions are one of the most powerful tools in the US toolbox short of war. In fact it's more important than war when dealing with Great Power adversaries because they have nukes. The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Iran deal, but preserving that power for the future is more important. Here's a good article about OFAC, the Treasury Department group th…

> The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it.

The ubiquity of US dollars in international trade allows US to torpedo the economy of any country it so desires. It is like the US has a kill switch to shut down any economy it wishes to. But the only reason the rest of the world plays along and allows the kill switch to exist is that they trust the US to use it responsibly and only in extreme circumstances. Now with the erosion of that trust, it is to be expected for the world to move towards eliminating that threat.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#12

Post by namirez »

sbierwagen wrote: post #8
devoply wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a type of war on civilians. Great power adversaries are no worse than allies like Saudi Arabia. American unilateralism is evil, and it has to end. The sooner the better!

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

You forgot to mention the 4th scenario: turning Iran into another Afghanistan or Iraq. smh!

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#14

Post by IBM »

sschueller wrote: post #10
IBM wrote: post #3

Sanctions are one of the most powerful tools in the US toolbox short of war. In fact it's more important than war when dealing with Great Power adversaries because they have nukes. The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Iran deal, but preserving that power for the future is more important. Here's a good article about OFAC, the Treasury Department group th…

Why does the US get to unilaterally decide who gets sanctioned and who doesn't? Europe has a lot more to loose on an unstable Iran than the US and can't risk deals being undone because the US has a new regime every 4 years.

The US gets to unilaterally decide because they've underwritten global stability and security in the post-WW2 era. Europe being one of the biggest beneficiaries of that.

And this isn't even me being a jingoistic American, I was born in Canada.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#15

Post by snaky »

mrtksn wrote: post #7
curiousgal wrote: post #4

> Such transactions, presumably in euros and pounds sterling, would not be transparent to American authorities. Then why make this plan public?

I think it's not a clandestine operation but just a challenge to the US demands, therefore it's public? US: Don't trade with Iran because politics UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Sorry, We like the deal we made and we would like to trade with Iran. US: If any company trades with Iran, won't be able to trade with the USA. Make your choise. UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Okay then, we will create an infrastructure where the USA won't be able…

US: Nice. Then we will just roll the dice once a week and point our finger to random big company of yours.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#16

Post by gdfasfklshg4 »

sbierwagen wrote: post #8
devoply wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a type of war on civilians. Great power adversaries are no worse than allies like Saudi Arabia. American unilateralism is evil, and it has to end. The sooner the better!

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

The USA invades at least as many countries as Russia.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#17

Post by [deleted] »

sbierwagen wrote: post #8
devoply wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a type of war on civilians. Great power adversaries are no worse than allies like Saudi Arabia. American unilateralism is evil, and it has to end. The sooner the better!

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

[deleted]

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#18

Post by gdfasfklshg4 »

IBM wrote: post #9
devoply wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a type of war on civilians. Great power adversaries are no worse than allies like Saudi Arabia. American unilateralism is evil, and it has to end. The sooner the better!

There's good and bad to America being able to do things unilaterally. The bad is stuff like the Iraq War. But two examples of its good are the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which has global reach and has been used in enforcement actions against international businesses operating internationally, and more recently the Magnitsky Act. Both of these are the best exports of American influence and require the US to be at…

It is not one country's place to police the world.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#19

Post by bambax »

smnrchrds wrote: post #11
IBM wrote: post #3

Sanctions are one of the most powerful tools in the US toolbox short of war. In fact it's more important than war when dealing with Great Power adversaries because they have nukes. The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Iran deal, but preserving that power for the future is more important. Here's a good article about OFAC, the Treasury Department group th…

> The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. The ubiquity of US dollars in international trade allows US to torpedo the economy of any country it so desires. It is like the US has a kill switch to shut down any economy it wishes to. But the only reason the rest of the world plays along and allows the kill switch to exist is that they trust the US to use it responsibly and only in extreme circumsta…

I disagree. I think the only reason the rest of the world plays along is because the rest of the world is weak. The US are simply a bully.

But it's true that the advent of Trump makes the bullying more difficult to accept because it's now absurd and incoherent; if some other powers unite and find a way to resist the bullying, then at least some good will have come out of trumpism.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#20

Post by RangerScience »

curiousgal wrote: post #5
IBM wrote: post #3

Sanctions are one of the most powerful tools in the US toolbox short of war. In fact it's more important than war when dealing with Great Power adversaries because they have nukes. The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Iran deal, but preserving that power for the future is more important. Here's a good article about OFAC, the Treasury Department group th…

I've always found it fascinating to link the stand of an entire country to a single person or a group of people. For instance when we say, the U.S. has imposed X sanctions, it's weird to think that it's simply the work of a small group of people. I am doing an awful job at wording my thought, but what I am trying to say that putting a human face/name on an entire country's action makes it interesting.

I think I get (and agree) with that you're putting down. Maybe this phrasing? :

"It's weird to think that the actions of the few who wield the most - but not the majority - of the power in the US are talked about as if they are the US."

Sometimes, we narrow this down; we say, the X administration. But is that accurate? Does it convey the emotional reality?

Maybe we should say; [Person], acting in their duty as [Role] on behalf of the US, has [action].

But, does this have the inevitable effect of distancing those people from the country that has given them power?

More than half the voting-power of the US voted for Trump, and some portion of that power is then invested in these decisions; at the same time, less than half the voting-power of the US voted for trump, and some portion of that power is then disinvested in those decisions.

It's almost like we need different words to describe the national entity when that entity is democratic than the words we inherited from monarchies.

Maybe we take a page from swarms - perhaps instead of "The US imposed sanctions", we say, "From the US emerged sanctions", or, "Those empowered by the US imposed sanctions". But, none of these use as few words as: "the US did X". Brevity wins.

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