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Anatomy of a Killing

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Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#41

Post by JoblessWonder »

peteretep wrote: post #38
JoblessWonder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all started with a tip that gave them the general area though. This is my favorite example of gathering data just from examining a video: https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2014/08/22...

> It all started with a tip that gave them the general area _though_ You've made this point twice in the comments. What are you getting at?

Just that the investigation hinges on decidedly non-technical/novel methods. It is an interesting news story and presentation but isn’t as unique as I think people who just skimmed the twitter thread might assume.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#42

Post by ezoe »

browsercoin wrote: post #29
apo wrote: post #22

I can't imagine this kind of analysis carrying much weight in 3-5 years as advances in machine learning and image manipulation turn the notion of "seeing is believing" on its head. edit: Imagine running this process in reverse. Pick the culprit, time, and location. Then arrange the scene to exactly match the false accusation. Probably didn't happen here, but in a few years it won't be possible to know the difference.

I disagree that "deepfakes" will be unverifiable. There is very robust forensic framework for analyzing videos for authenticity, and it often relies not just on the visual component but all the other vectors that open up as a result-EM waves being generated, audio analysis, etc. A deepfake that passes this analytical function would imply that we will not be seeing advancements in digital forensics due to AI, which do…

If there is a program which output the authenticity of input, Can't we use that to further improve the NN? Eventually, given enough computation, trained NN reliably output videos even the said program can't bust.

I see a dark future ahead of us.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#44

Post by msds »

platz wrote: post #27
vpark wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, vmaini. Do you mean identify the time/location/persons or kill innocent civilians?

What is your desired precision/recall rate

Well, if the AI gets to do both, you can make the precision arbitrarily high...

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#46

Post by synthmeat »

apo wrote: post #22

I can't imagine this kind of analysis carrying much weight in 3-5 years as advances in machine learning and image manipulation turn the notion of "seeing is believing" on its head. edit: Imagine running this process in reverse. Pick the culprit, time, and location. Then arrange the scene to exactly match the false accusation. Probably didn't happen here, but in a few years it won't be possible to know the difference.

It's not that it will be impossible to detect (they probably will be for quite some time) as it's about nature of dissemination - you first see fake, and only in its echoes you possibly see the truth.

Now, problem is, if fakes are easy to make, there'll be more of them, particulary if they generate impressions and spread faster than rebutals. And as space of fakes is infinite compared to space of truth, with advanced tools, it can be concocted in such a way that falsifying it might be lengthy process. And, in some cases there, it may be too late.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#47

Post by Consultant32452 »

wish5031 wrote: post #32
browsercoin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that "deepfakes" will be unverifiable. There is very robust forensic framework for analyzing videos for authenticity, and it often relies not just on the visual component but all the other vectors that open up as a result-EM waves being generated, audio analysis, etc. A deepfake that passes this analytical function would imply that we will not be seeing advancements in digital forensics due to AI, which do…

That seems like a plausible argument, but there’s a huge portion of the population that’ll willingly believe any realistic-looking video they see, regardless of the evidence. That could have fatal consequences, e.g. as happened with the Planned Parenthood video in 2015. [0] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_2015_unde...

I agree. People supported a war in Iraq based largely on cartoonish photoshops of mobile nuclear weapons labs in ice cream trucks.

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#48

Post by M2Ys4U »

JoblessWonder wrote: post #26
Semiapies wrote: post #3

This is some impressive video forensics.

It all started with a tip that gave them the general area though. This is my favorite example of gathering data just from examining a video: https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2014/08/22...

>It all started with a tip that gave them the general area though.

So, good old fashioned journalism?

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#49

Post by endersshadow »

tptacek wrote: post #40
eveningcoffee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does matter. Tremendously. For example is this soldiers initiative or part of a general tactics encouraged by the higher command? Was the execution justified (i.e. motivated, that is, it was not a cover up or a random killing)? I can come up with few reasons to kill the woman but why the child? Is there some message behind this killing? Naturally these questions do not matter for despising such behaviour but a…

They murdered two children.

Yes, but why? They're up there fighting Boko Haram -- this is a war-torn part of the world. Why is the Cameroonian military killing the people they're charged with protecting?

It's something I'd really like to know, after reading through this. I don't understand anything but the most superficial issues facing this region, and it rather shocked me that the national military that's up there to quell the Boko Haram insurgency is committing these atrocities.

I mean, yes, people kill people for fun. People kill children because they're monsters, and I get that. But is that what's happening here? Or is this ethnic cleansing? Or is this something else entirely?

Re: Anatomy of a Killing

#50

Post by tptacek »

endersshadow wrote: post #49
tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They murdered two children.

Yes, but why? They're up there fighting Boko Haram -- this is a war-torn part of the world. Why is the Cameroonian military killing the people they're charged with protecting? It's something I'd really like to know, after reading through this. I don't understand anything but the most superficial issues facing this region, and it rather shocked me that the national military that's up there to quell the Boko Haram insu…

I think you're just using the wrong word, is all. "Justified" isn't what you're looking for.
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