Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

wsj.com

161–165 of 165 posts

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I'm an Amazon employee, but I can only speak my own opinion on this matter.) A couple factual problems with this: first, the employees that have access to this sort of data are in white collar roles, and are hardly being paid "absolute bare minimum." Second, when Amazon interviews employees, we ask about our Leadership Principles ( https://www.amazon.jobs/principles ), one of which actually is that leade…

Does it really matter what a company talks about when they interview employees? Prevailing culture that is shaped by what the organization rewards seems way more important.

Yeah, every company in the world wants employees that they can trust, are team players, and so on. At least, I've never seen a job spec for 'Untrustworthy, slightly shifty, loner required. Must be antisocial and lazy. Must have a University degree in science or mathematics and a current drivers license.'

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your original statement was, "This is more of a political issue than a cultural one." I'm not saying it's not political, I'm saying it's also cultural, when we revere and lionize people like Jobs and Schmidt rather than putting them in prison. Law is a tool for managing human wickedness. If we weren't wicked we wouldn't have invented law. That shows trivially that character is more fundamental than policy, eh?

> I'm not saying it's not political, I'm saying it's also cultural, when we revere and lionize people like Jobs and Schmidt rather than putting them in prison. Whether we put them in prison is the policy decision. Culture influences policy in the same way that policy influences culture, but they're not the same thing -- and there are two different cultures here. One is that of the executives making the corporate deci…

If life on Earth were simple enough that "good enough" laws were even possible (not difficult, not tricky, but possible to formulate at all even by a legislature populated by very stable geniuses), then we would not have evolved such large brains.

After all, Gödel showed that any powerful system of rules will contain inconsistencies. Even closed tautological systems like the Catholic religion contain flaws (that was the premise of the movie "Dogma": two banished angels find a loophole in God's Law and attempt to destroy the Universe) and theologians literally get to define God.

Any system of human law must be inconsistent, so we perforce rely on human judges, which means we rely on their [lack of] wickedness, i.e. their culture, and we are back where we started.

> If we had better laws people wouldn't be as wicked.

Meaning no disrespect, that is a proposition to which I assign a low truth value.

I read "Walden II"[1] at an impressionable age, and I thought for a long time that if we could just make the "right" laws, construct the right system, then we could easily achieve Utopia. I was too young to realize that the novel is actually "behaviorist" propaganda.[2]

My own experience of humans, and something Gandhi said, later convinced me that law, no matter how good or wise, cannot of itself make for good people. I've never been able to find the actual quote, but it was something like, "No system [of government] relieves the people under it from the burden [or obligation] of trying to be better human beings."

If prison worked to convince people to take up that burden I don't think recidivism rates would be as high as they are, eh?

So, again, I don't reject that good and just laws are a vital part of a good and just society, but I see them as a result, not a cause.

In any event, well met.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Two

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_behaviorism

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#163

In a company approaching a million employees, someone is doing something illegal/unethical every day. At that scale it doesn’t say anything about the culture as you are observing the outer ranges of a distribution.

Consulting the internet it looks like they have 560,000 employees.. which is quite a lot, but only halfway to a million.

Technically you could say any company is "approaching a million employees".. some just slower than others.

The statement is true, but it's innacurate and misleading.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#164
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really matter what a company talks about when they interview employees? Prevailing culture that is shaped by what the organization rewards seems way more important.

Yeah, every company in the world wants employees that they can trust, are team players, and so on. At least, I've never seen a job spec for 'Untrustworthy, slightly shifty, loner required. Must be antisocial and lazy. Must have a University degree in science or mathematics and a current drivers license.'

If it's a prerequisite then does it really matter if it's said.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I'm an Amazon employee, but I can only speak my own opinion on this matter.) A couple factual problems with this: first, the employees that have access to this sort of data are in white collar roles, and are hardly being paid "absolute bare minimum." Second, when Amazon interviews employees, we ask about our Leadership Principles ( https://www.amazon.jobs/principles ), one of which actually is that leade…

Does it really matter what a company talks about when they interview employees? Prevailing culture that is shaped by what the organization rewards seems way more important.

Sure, let me be a little more specific:

- We ask candidates about times that they earned trust, behaved in a trust-worthy manner in the past. - Employees in their reviews are judged in part based on how well they earn the trust of their peers, managers, etc. - Promotions happen based on demonstrating the Leadership Principles, including earning trust.

I can't speak to whether every pocket at Amazon has implemented it the way it's supposed to, nor can I say that every employee at Amazon excels at this. I would hope though that someone who reads a statement like "Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust, not just skill" understands that this is something that has been explicitly understood within Amazon for years.

Post reply on HN