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Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#31

Post by jchrisa »

lisper wrote: post #23
nardi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one actually believes this, including you. You may say you do, and even think you do, but you don’t. Everyone acts as if they and others around them possess free will. We act that way because that’s what we believe. Honestly, I don’t think we understand enough about consciousness and how it arises from physical brains/bodies to make such an extraordinary claim like “there is no free will,” when the entire history…

> No one actually believes this, including you. I'm pretty sure that I'm in a better position to know what I actually believe than you are, and I'm telling you, I really do believe this. There are only three possibilities: either free will is an illusion, or dualism is true, or consciousness is the result of unknown new physics. The first is by far the most likely from a scientific point of view, and the evidence for…

You can be a monist and still believe in physics and free-will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalous_monism

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#32

Post by ajuc »

Ygg2 wrote: post #17
buboard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as if they and others around them possess free will. How would we "act as if they don't" ?

If I punch you, will you blame me?

Of course. I have no choice, remember?

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#33

Post by pavel_lishin »

lisper wrote: post #23
nardi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one actually believes this, including you. You may say you do, and even think you do, but you don’t. Everyone acts as if they and others around them possess free will. We act that way because that’s what we believe. Honestly, I don’t think we understand enough about consciousness and how it arises from physical brains/bodies to make such an extraordinary claim like “there is no free will,” when the entire history…

> No one actually believes this, including you. I'm pretty sure that I'm in a better position to know what I actually believe than you are, and I'm telling you, I really do believe this. There are only three possibilities: either free will is an illusion, or dualism is true, or consciousness is the result of unknown new physics. The first is by far the most likely from a scientific point of view, and the evidence for…

I think what _nardi_ is trying to say is that there's no functional difference between having free will, and acting as if you do.

What decisions do you make differently with your knowledge that free will is an illusion? What choices do you make differently?

(fwiw, I agree with you; I just think it doesn't particularly matter now.)

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#34

Post by lisper »

jschwartzi wrote: post #26
lisper wrote: post #6

I have some bad news for you: your perception of free will is a by-product of your ignorance of how your brain works. Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing, and those neurons were built by your DNA.

Actually free will is one of those delicious unanswerable questions that everyone has a different answer for. Think about this for a moment -- what would be different about the world or human behavior if we had free will versus if we didn't? Talking about free will is just another way to have a conversation about God.

Funny you should bring up God. Just yesterday I published a formal proof that God is logically incompatible with free will:

http://blog.rongarret.info/2018/09/the-last-word-i-hope-on-f...

You might find this interesting as well:

https://blog.rongarret.info/2018/01/a-multilogue-on-free-wil...

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#35

Post by inputcoffee »

lisper wrote: post #6

I have some bad news for you: your perception of free will is a by-product of your ignorance of how your brain works. Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing, and those neurons were built by your DNA.

You have it backwards: those neurons firing is my free will.

In other words, I am not a product of neurons firing, I am neurons firing.

I feel like we should reread Descartes' Meditations. But roughly speaking, "I think therefore I am" can be interpreted as "I am thought."

What is essential to me is the information processing that happens as a result of the neurons firing.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#36

Post by thaumaturgy »

sandworm101 wrote: post #12

So what does this say about all the studies on rats, dogs, and all the other animals we have been using to study addiction? The rats that choose cocaine over food, are they running a different retrovirus?

The researchers found that the presence of RASGRF2 in their sample populations went from 6% to 14% and 9.5% to 34% when comparing controls to chronic drug abusers.

So this means that addiction is a complex, multi-factor condition, and these researchers may have identified another factor. People with this gene may be predisposed to addictive behaviors but not behave that way for any number of environmental or other reasons; likewise, people without the gene may still develop addictive behaviors.

The researchers didn't study rats or dogs, so there isn't much in the way of evidence for this gene's presence in those species.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#37

Post by buckminster »

tudelo wrote: post #25
buckminster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't blame you because you had a choice. I blame you to discourage future punches.

That seems absurd.

How so? You don't need free will to adapt to feedback.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#38

Post by bqe »

lisper wrote: post #6

I have some bad news for you: your perception of free will is a by-product of your ignorance of how your brain works. Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing, and those neurons were built by your DNA.

Whenever free will comes up I like to bring up Conway's Free Will Theorem[1].

If you define free will as future choices cannot be predicted based on history, then it turns out that if humans have free will, so do elementary particles. To me, this doesn't mean we don't have free will, but instead the linear, deterministic model that's often used to discount free will is just not how the universe works.

Note that this result does not depend on statistical randomness like some of quantum mechanics, but just three simple axioms. I highly recommend reading the full paper, especially the end, "Free Will Versus Determinism".

[1]: http://www.ams.org/notices/200902/rtx090200226p.pdf

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#39

Post by wu-ikkyu »

lisper wrote: post #6

I have some bad news for you: your perception of free will is a by-product of your ignorance of how your brain works. Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing, and those neurons were built by your DNA.

>Every decision you think you make is actually just a bunch of neurons firing

That's like saying "matter is just a bunch of atoms". The reality is not so certain. Our understanding of the fundamental nature of reality (physics) and consciousness (neuroscience/psychology) is still highly theoretical.

Re: Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient retroviral infection

#40

Post by carapace »

buboard wrote: post #13
nardi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one actually believes this, including you. You may say you do, and even think you do, but you don’t. Everyone acts as if they and others around them possess free will. We act that way because that’s what we believe. Honestly, I don’t think we understand enough about consciousness and how it arises from physical brains/bodies to make such an extraordinary claim like “there is no free will,” when the entire history…

> as if they and others around them possess free will. How would we "act as if they don't" ?

I believe that the vast majority of people are effectively mechanical. Very few people notice and remember themselves. Maybe one in 10^6 or fewer.

There's a old Buddhist story, you're in a small boat on a lake in a thick fog, you can barely see beyond your boat. Out of the fog comes another boat that crashes into yours, and you start to yell at the other boater to be careful, but a break in the fog reveals that no one is in the boat. You've been yelling at nothing.

For me, either the other person is present, and therefore harmless, or they are absent, and therefore blameless. In any event, it's wrong to get upset or angry. However, one should take steps to prevent damage to boats.

Two things: it's been shown that, by the time you consciously decide to act, your neurons have already been increasing in activity for ~100ms. In other words, it's been scientifically shown that our conscious experience of "free will" is preceded by unconscious nervous activity. Make of that what you will. ;-) Pun intended.

Second, when you observe a person while remembering yourself it affects them. I've seen burly lads transform into scared little boys under a mindful gaze. When you're present people don't punch you.

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