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Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

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Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#461

Post by simias »

laumars wrote: post #416
jstanley wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company is asking you to do things that you find ethically untenable, you should leave, even in full knowledge that the company will find a way to do it anyway.

In an ideal world, yes. But people have mortgages, families and other commitments. Some have social anxiety and find job hunting an impossibly scary prospect. Others might suffer from depression. It's all good and well placing generalised ethics on individuals to do the right thing but in those kind of ideal world scenarios you also wouldn't have accountants finding tax loopholes, lawyers perpetuating patent abuse, n…

In general I agree with you, clearly not everybody has the luxury of being able to quit their jobs if it doesn't align with their values, especially when the problem is so relatively benign in the grand scheme of things. I'm not trying to downplay Google's decision here, I invite everybody to stop using Chrome, but it's not like they're enslaving people or something. I can imagine that most people wouldn't risk hurting their families or losing their houses for something like that.

That being said, is it really a concern for the average Google engineer? I mean sure, if we're talking about Google's cleaning staff I can imagine that leaving their jobs can be risky but software devs? Even assuming that they have multiple children and a huge mortgage, surely they can easily find other well paying job without much difficulty?

You won't have me believe that the majority of Google's engineers is financially unable to quit their job.

>Some have social anxiety and find job hunting an impossibly scary prospect.

I'm sure that can be a factor but does it really justify anything? As far as looking for a job is concerned we have it super easy. If you can't stand for your values because of "social anxiety" then maybe you don't value your values that much?

And I realize that I sound like I'm on a high horse right now and I am, but I'm talking out of experience. I've been in that situation in the past, doing a job that I found morally questionable but finding myself excuses. Don't make my mistake, it's not worth it. There's more to life than working full time tricking people into watching ads.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#462

Post by pimeys »

heinrich5991 wrote: post #96
ux-app wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropping chrome is not enough. Switch to bing (Just as good as G), or ddg if you really want. Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. If you're installing G analytics for clients then choose an alternative (I'm open to suggestions here). It's really time to disentangle ourselves from google. They've quietly and effectively insinuated themselves across the web. Enough is enough.

You should be good if you're using Android without Google services, I think.

This is my only chance right now unfortunately. As I've written here before I use open source closed loop insulin systems and Android is the most convenient OS to run them without needing to reinstall every now and then as you do in iOS.

I'd like something more linux-y, maybe with support for Android that I can run xDrip and AndroidAPS. But nothing else from Google. Anyways Signal, Email and Firefox are the other apps I need from the system.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#463

Post by thecatspaw »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #437
laumars wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world, yes. But people have mortgages, families and other commitments. Some have social anxiety and find job hunting an impossibly scary prospect. Others might suffer from depression. It's all good and well placing generalised ethics on individuals to do the right thing but in those kind of ideal world scenarios you also wouldn't have accountants finding tax loopholes, lawyers perpetuating patent abuse, n…

>people have mortgages, families and other commitments. Some have social anxiety and find job hunting an impossibly scary prospect. Others might suffer from depression. So what? Standing up for what you believe in is never easy, and almost always involves challenges like those. Imagine if Dr. King gave up because he was anxious and depressed with death threats coming in on a regular basis. Failing to take a moral/eth…

So, assuming you're tight on money, the job market is looking crap, but you got lucky and got a well paying job. Chances of getting another job are slim. You have a few responsibilities, a wife, say 2 kids, maybe even someone who needs medical bills paid.

Do you just say "fuck it", and quit, ignoring all your responsibilities? Over cookies?

Of course, when its not about cookies, but about something more drastic, say something ludicrous like giving google nuclear launch codes, then the whole thing looks different. Some things are worth the fight, some are not.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#464

Post by nestramutat »

jostondet wrote: post #122
ux-app wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropping chrome is not enough. Switch to bing (Just as good as G), or ddg if you really want. Then ditch android which is the spy in your pocket. If you're installing G analytics for clients then choose an alternative (I'm open to suggestions here). It's really time to disentangle ourselves from google. They've quietly and effectively insinuated themselves across the web. Enough is enough.

I'm stuck on deciding what my primary mail provider will be. I do not mind paying a few bucks a month, would anyone have a suggestion? Regarding drive replacement, I will probably host a nextcloud instance.

I can drop a vouch in for Protonmail. Been using them for a bit over a year now. They also recently added full PGP integration, with the ability to assign public keys to contacts, as well as the ability to use your own private key.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#465

Post by Aaronn »

rapnie wrote: post #441
jstanley wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use DuckDuckGo exclusively and don't feel like my life is worse for it. It really is good enough. And when you also factor in that you're not helping Google build a profile on you, it's better than Google.

I use DDG as default search for little over a year now. Mostly I am quite happy with it, and do not have to fall back to Google. But for some searches I do have to do that. E.g. searching for a HN discussion from the last week: usually no hit. Also image and video search yield surprisingly little results. This last thing is my biggest complaint on DDG.

For HN specifically, !hn usually works pretty well in DDG.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#466

Post by hanniabu »

mattferderer wrote: post #387
jstanley wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company is asking you to do things that you find ethically untenable, you should leave, even in full knowledge that the company will find a way to do it anyway.

You should first ask, can I & others change the company from within. Many people credit a small group of Microsoft employees for getting the company to embrace open source. This group grew from within as I'm told.

I'd bet that's a PR stunt to retain employees

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#467

Post by WalterSear »

nathan_long wrote: post #369
swebs wrote: post #320

"Oh you want to take a moral stand? Ok, the door is that way. We've just successfully lobbied for a few hundred more H1B's that will do anything we tell them"

"OK, no problem. Having Google on my resume means I can get a new job by the end of the week. I'll be sure to spread the word to users and developers alike that you're shady." Let's not pretend that developers are powerless.

It's not the big deal it was, and is likely to involve a massive cut in pay, fwiw.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#468

Post by class4behavior »

Buetol wrote: post #363

Here's the PR where this message has been introduced: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/98... ...but the related bug discussion is hidden.... The internal name for the feature is "DICE" (desktop identity consistency feature) There is a build flag to disable the feature: ENABLE_DICE_SUPPORT

Well, at least in chromium you can disable it at run time as well: chrome://flags/#account-consistency

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#469

Post by matwood »

braythwayt wrote: post #224
snarfy wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They disagree with the direction the company is going so they ... quit? They apply at some other company comparable to Google, uproot their family, move across country, and get a job somewhere else? I don't blame the engineers one bit. I certainly don't expect the poor engineer that had to implement the cookie changes to refuse and quit his job over it.

Yes. That’s how values work. You VALUE them, meaning—objectively—you are willing to make some sacrifice for them. Same goes for working for a predatory financial institution, a manufacturer who makes dangerous products, or for that matter, a company with a toxic culture. How is this different from working for a tobacco company? Decades ago we had the same conversation about people who ”were just following orders.” If…

I agree that values are important, but I have a problem with comparing this Google situation to other situations that literally kill people. An engineer who values privacy could reasonably think that staying at Google and fighting the privacy fight is the best way to keep pushing his or her values.
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