Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 114 posts

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#61

Post by lbriner »

There are some negative comments about the amount this farm produces but at 3500 acres and 75 tonnes of meat, I very much doubt they are attempting to maximise their output as a farm, especially considering the other camping and nature activities they host.

It is also an estate which will have other land uses so I would be more interested in seeing what would be reasonable to expect of the same amount of land used exclusively for farming cattle in this way because I think this could be a lot higher.

Then we can argue about whether this is scalable ;-)

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#62

Post by saurik »

Djvacto wrote: post #58
eaenki wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm calling quit on HN after seeing such an article on the first page.

I personally like having spots of news that aren't strictly technical mixed in, but I understand that some people prefer to see that elsewhere. For me, I like seeing what I consider one of the better communities I frequent on the internet discussing all sorts of things (if I could get you guys to write comments on everything I ever read, the internet would be my favorite place).

I also "like having spots of news that aren't strictly technical mixed in", but you described the article as an inaccurate short-sighted advertisement...

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#63

Post by Djvacto »

saurik wrote: post #62
Djvacto wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally like having spots of news that aren't strictly technical mixed in, but I understand that some people prefer to see that elsewhere. For me, I like seeing what I consider one of the better communities I frequent on the internet discussing all sorts of things (if I could get you guys to write comments on everything I ever read, the internet would be my favorite place).

I also "like having spots of news that aren't strictly technical mixed in", but you described the article as an inaccurate short-sighted advertisement...

Fair point. While I disagree with the article, I enjoyed reading the discussion around it, so I'm not quite sure whether I'm happy or sad it hit front page?

Mixed feelings, I suppose.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#65

Post by barrow-rider »

toasterlovin wrote: post #59

A point that seems to be lost on most people who advocate for a plant based diet is that not all plants have the same environmental impact. Among plants as a class , there is a 60x range in the amount of calories provided per unit of resources required. So it matters a lot which plants you replace meat consumption with. Generally speaking, beans, grains, and plant oils provide a lot of calories per input, whereas lea…

> A point that seems to be lost on most people who advocate for a plant based diet is that not all plants have the same environmental impact.

I am reminded of the vast amounts of water used to grow almonds

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#66

Post by akskos »

toasterlovin wrote: post #59

A point that seems to be lost on most people who advocate for a plant based diet is that not all plants have the same environmental impact. Among plants as a class , there is a 60x range in the amount of calories provided per unit of resources required. So it matters a lot which plants you replace meat consumption with. Generally speaking, beans, grains, and plant oils provide a lot of calories per input, whereas lea…

I can assure you that no vegan replaces meat with kale salads and berry smoothies.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#67

Post by rajekas »

Not much that I can add to this conversation, but let me share a pet peeve: the phrase "save the world," which is used indiscriminately in so many contexts that's its devoid of meaning.

Save the world for whom? The tacit answer seems to be: for humans. Most vegans, including me, are vegan because we find the exploitation of animals morally unjustifiable. Our world includes the nonhuman world. And by being vegan we are saving it.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#68

Post by toasterlovin »

akskos wrote: post #66
toasterlovin wrote: post #59

A point that seems to be lost on most people who advocate for a plant based diet is that not all plants have the same environmental impact. Among plants as a class , there is a 60x range in the amount of calories provided per unit of resources required. So it matters a lot which plants you replace meat consumption with. Generally speaking, beans, grains, and plant oils provide a lot of calories per input, whereas lea…

I can assure you that no vegan replaces meat with kale salads and berry smoothies.

Does their grocery bill change as a result of not eating meat, though? If not, then there's probably no difference in environmental impact.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#69

Post by nicbou »

toasterlovin wrote: post #59

A point that seems to be lost on most people who advocate for a plant based diet is that not all plants have the same environmental impact. Among plants as a class , there is a 60x range in the amount of calories provided per unit of resources required. So it matters a lot which plants you replace meat consumption with. Generally speaking, beans, grains, and plant oils provide a lot of calories per input, whereas lea…

Isn't this premise flawed though? I'd assume that even low-calorie plants are still way ahead of your average cow in terms of environmental impact. You have omitted methane emissions from that calculation, even though their impact is significant. You also ignored that plants produce oxygen instead of consuming it.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#70

Post by esailija »

bunderbunder wrote: post #49

> Intensively farmed meat and dairy are a blight, but so are fields of soya and maize. . . . more of which are being used to feed livestock than to feed humans. This article reads more like an apology and a rationalization than a balanced review of the whole situation.

Yes stopped reading there as everyone going vegan would actually plummet the demand for industrial crops because eating them directly is order of magnitude more efficient than eating them through inefficient proxy like meat. Any time one eats 1000 kcal worth of meat they are effectively eating 10000 kcal worth of soy/maize.
Post reply on HN