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If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

theguardian.com

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Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#41

Post by Vinnl »

I think the main thing veganism and vegetarianism have done in recent years is win over minds. As opposed to the clichéd vegan that will mention that fact whenever they can, the number of quiet vegetarians and vegans around me has skyrocketed in recent years. Even though they hardly ever discuss it, the fact that more and more people around me, even though still a minority, refuse meat and/or dairy products for themselves has really denormalised the role of meat in our society.

And that, in turn, makes even meat eaters more likely to consider voting for a political party that will restrict industrial farming practices, or to consider eating meat from farms like the authors'. And in that sense, it might still be the answer, regardless of the effectiveness of the veganism/vegetarianism itself.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#42

Post by munin »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #39
tdb7893 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to note is that being vegan is very difficult and most people aren't going to be vegan. One thing everyone can do is to cut their meat intake. People have meat for almost every meal and it's pretty simple to cut back and you still get some health and environmental benefits.

> People have meat for almost every meal I'm gonna call BS on this unless you provide a citation. Many people (in the west) eat a breakfast (cereal, pancakes, waffles, bagel, toast) or lunch (PB&J sandwich, salad) that contains no meat every day or every workday. Then you have to account for all the meals where there is no meat (pizza, mac and cheese). You'd need to have a substantial fraction of the population eatin…

bacon with your waffles? hot dog for lunch? meat lovers pizza for dinner?

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#43

Post by rhizome31 »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #2

probably not a popular opinion but I think the best way to reduce your carbon foot print is not to have children

Let's say we'd compare the carbon foot print of an average 10-kids Yemenite family with an average single guy with no kids living in Los Angeles. I'm not sure if the single guy would have a lower foot print.

Put it another way, if the poorest half of world population suddenly disappeared, would it solve the problem? I could be wrong but I doubt it.

My understanding is that what matters is not so much how many we are, but what the richest do.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#44

Post by toine_toine »

danbruc wrote: post #34
cageface wrote: post #26

More humane and sustainable forms of animal agriculture would certainly be a step in the right direction from the horrors of the concentrated feeding operations that supply most of the world's meat supply right now. But those techniques were developed for a reason. There's no way to meet the current and rapidly growing demand for meat without completely setting aside the welfare of the animals and the environment. Th…

The real solution is to reduce the global population [...] Why such a drastic solution, why not just lower the meat consumption per capita? Or switch to lab-grown meat?

    There must be a cleansing.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#45

Post by Aaargh20318 »

rhizome31 wrote: post #43
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #2

probably not a popular opinion but I think the best way to reduce your carbon foot print is not to have children

Let's say we'd compare the carbon foot print of an average 10-kids Yemenite family with an average single guy with no kids living in Los Angeles. I'm not sure if the single guy would have a lower foot print. Put it another way, if the poorest half of world population suddenly disappeared, would it solve the problem? I could be wrong but I doubt it. My understanding is that what matters is not so much how many we are,…

> Let's say we'd compare the carbon foot print of an average 10-kids Yemenite family with an average single guy with no kids living in Los Angeles. I'm not sure if the single guy would have a lower foot print.

If you assume those 10 children are also going to have 10 children each, and those children are also going to have 10 children, etc. You're talking 1000 people in 3 generations.

Every birth is a tragedy.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#46

Post by yread »

tdb7893 wrote: post #33
cageface wrote: post #26

More humane and sustainable forms of animal agriculture would certainly be a step in the right direction from the horrors of the concentrated feeding operations that supply most of the world's meat supply right now. But those techniques were developed for a reason. There's no way to meet the current and rapidly growing demand for meat without completely setting aside the welfare of the animals and the environment. Th…

One thing to note is that being vegan is very difficult and most people aren't going to be vegan. One thing everyone can do is to cut their meat intake. People have meat for almost every meal and it's pretty simple to cut back and you still get some health and environmental benefits.

It's also healthy to cut back on (red) meat consumption. NHS recommends 70g/day. One proper steak means no meat for the rest of the week.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/meat-nutrition/#how-mu...

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#47

Post by francisofascii »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #2

probably not a popular opinion but I think the best way to reduce your carbon foot print is not to have children

If you want to defend something, in this case the environment, you need people to defend it, against those who want to exploit it to the max.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#48

Post by toasterlovin »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #2

probably not a popular opinion but I think the best way to reduce your carbon foot print is not to have children

This is a naive, short-sighted analysis. It makes sense at the level of a singe individual or couple, but, unfortunately, the world is filled with other people. It may be unintuitive, but if you have an environmentalist bent, having more children is a better strategy than having less. I've expanded on this idea if anybody is interested:

http://www.richardjones.org/kids-are-good-for-the-environmen...

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#49

Post by bunderbunder »

> Intensively farmed meat and dairy are a blight, but so are fields of soya and maize.

. . . more of which are being used to feed livestock than to feed humans.

This article reads more like an apology and a rationalization than a balanced review of the whole situation.

Re: If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer

#50

Post by ianai »

munin wrote: post #42
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have meat for almost every meal I'm gonna call BS on this unless you provide a citation. Many people (in the west) eat a breakfast (cereal, pancakes, waffles, bagel, toast) or lunch (PB&J sandwich, salad) that contains no meat every day or every workday. Then you have to account for all the meals where there is no meat (pizza, mac and cheese). You'd need to have a substantial fraction of the population eatin…

bacon with your waffles? hot dog for lunch? meat lovers pizza for dinner?

Many many many foods have eggs or dairy products in them that simply don’t need them. The bread for that pbj could very well have milk, eggs in it. Butter on toast is a dairy product. Eggs are a common ingredient in veggie burgers!
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