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Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

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Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#31

Post by vertex-four »

ovi256 wrote: post #24
smivan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are real numbers. Background: Average of 10 programmers who range ages 22-25 and are 2-3 years out of college. Base: 140k Bonus: 30k Equity: ~60k Total: $230k year pretax. Taxes: - 33% federal bracket - 10% state bracket - 7% FICA+Medicaid. (50% total) Brackets listed are marginal rates, actual rates are noted here: https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#p9c7Y... Let's run the math - $230k comp -…

> Taxes: ... (50% total) > run the math - $230k comp - $83k taxes Please fix this inconsistency.

It’s not an inconsistency because of how taxes work - the first $x gets taxed at a lower rate. Most of most people’s income is not taxed at their marginal tax rate.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#32

Post by carlmr »

EZ-E wrote: post #29
titzer wrote: post #19

After 5 years there, my conclusion was that the Bay Area runs on human souls. It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax , the…

> It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax, then your soul is being pretty much sucked dry. I would get my soul sucked dry f…

100k$ won't create much savings in the Bay Area. At least aim for 200k$ there if you want to sell your life for years.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#33

Post by madengr »

carlmr wrote: post #32
EZ-E wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax, then your soul is being pretty much sucked dry. I would get my soul sucked dry f…

100k$ won't create much savings in the Bay Area. At least aim for 200k$ there if you want to sell your life for years.

So $200k is $20k for 10 years, which is well below the poverty line. If you sold your life for 4 years, that would only get you 40 years of poverty.

Now if you can invest $180k/year, for a few years when young, you can retire early and rich. But it would take 20 years of growth.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#34

Post by watwut »

EZ-E wrote: post #29
titzer wrote: post #19

After 5 years there, my conclusion was that the Bay Area runs on human souls. It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax , the…

> It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax, then your soul is being pretty much sucked dry. I would get my soul sucked dry f…

One thing to consider is that if you spend several years with zero friends, zero romance and doing only single thing, then it is hard to start socializing again (assuming work is work and not socializing moved to workplace). You forget what it is like, how to do it, how to choose people to be with. You wont know what to do with time.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#35

Post by claydavisss »

There's really no way to intellectualize it - people coming to the Bay Area in 2018 are suckers, plain and simple.

You missed the boat - by years. Not only will you never afford a home here, you will piss away so much money on rent and other aspects of the absurdly inflated cost-of-living adjustment that you won't be able to leave and buy anywhere else either. If you're coming up on forty and still renting your primary residence, you are in real danger of financially screwing yourself for life. Traditional models of retirement have people paying off their homes in full by around fifty so they can start building their retirement funds.

Forget about catching a break when the "bubble bursts"...the "bubble bursting" means most people reading Hacker News will be out of work or feeling very nervous about their jobs.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#36

Post by nigifabio »

carlmr wrote: post #32
EZ-E wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might not be like the black lung, dirt-faced dangerous mines of old, but if you end up working 10 or 12 hours a day, are caged, distracted, annoyed (but fed!) at work, go home to a meager existence, have zero friends, zero romance, and your mind is hijacked to the point where you literally cannot think about anything else and relax, then your soul is being pretty much sucked dry. I would get my soul sucked dry f…

100k$ won't create much savings in the Bay Area. At least aim for 200k$ there if you want to sell your life for years.

100k in most of European big cities are not going to send you to pension at 40 either, 200k is the 6figures salary of the 90s

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#37

Post by jiveturkey »

nostrademons wrote: post #11
null0pointer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author specifies living alone > $5,500 a month at market rate, which is affordable to a mid-level programmer at a large tech firm living alone I understand what you mean that roommates are the only way it could make any sense. But I'm trying to understand where the author is coming from.

Oh, right. He also specifies mid-level developer (eg. Senior SWE or higher). I assume he means someone who's been working at a FAANG or late-stage startup for a couple years at least; by then, your stock options have started to vest and you can cash them out. Including stock mid-level compensation is usually well in the $300Ks for Bay Area large tech companies. You actually can pay for rent or food with stock at a pu…

> You actually can pay for rent or food with stock at a public tech company; just sell it immediately upon vesting.

You’d be stupid not to. You’ve already been taxed on it. The smaller gain in tax savings that you’d get from the delta against your new basis, over LTG holding period, is small and not worth the risk. Lastly, once you own the stock you don’t hold it just because it was given to you. Cash out and diversify.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#38

Post by ryandrake »

vostok wrote: post #16
null0pointer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 'mid-level' really senior or higher? You are probably right about the authors assumptions. Interesting that mortgage brokers consider it part of your income. Though I guess it makes sense. I didn't realise exactly how high compensation was in the Bay Area. People always throw out numbers but I've always struggled to find any actual data. Perhaps I should head to the 'mines' for a bit...

> I didn't realise exactly how high compensation was in the Bay Area. Important to note that $300k isn't really a typical number for a midlevel developer in the Bay Area even if it is a typical number for Google and similarly competitive companies. It's like looking at investment banking comp and deciding that it's a typical number for a midlevel employee in finance. That said, it's a perfectly achievable number a fe…

Yes, this is true. There are always people here on HN whose brother’s roommate’s best friend makes $300k at Facebook, and conclude that everyone in tech in the Bay Area makes that much. We are talking about outlier salaries at outlier companies.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#39

Post by jiveturkey »

what’s wrong with working in the mines? everyone is afraid of working hard? my parents spent every ounce of their being working hard so their children could have a better life.

you think this is something difficult try on a true “work is life” existence like the people that made your phone and laptop.

and, no one is being marched here. no one claims it is better than a slow and steady and more well rounded life. i mean besides the incessant drone of pop culture.

just a couple of counterpoints to the developing arguments.

i do like how the article itself isn’t judgemental about t. it’s a fair piece.

Re: Treating the Bay Area as like working in the mines

#40

Post by vostok »

ryandrake wrote: post #38
vostok wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't realise exactly how high compensation was in the Bay Area. Important to note that $300k isn't really a typical number for a midlevel developer in the Bay Area even if it is a typical number for Google and similarly competitive companies. It's like looking at investment banking comp and deciding that it's a typical number for a midlevel employee in finance. That said, it's a perfectly achievable number a fe…

Yes, this is true. There are always people here on HN whose brother’s roommate’s best friend makes $300k at Facebook, and conclude that everyone in tech in the Bay Area makes that much. We are talking about outlier salaries at outlier companies.

I'm saying that they are normal total comp figures at outlier companies not outlier total comp figures at outlier companies. Of course they are outliers compared to the rest of the world.
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