Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

blog.lukaszolejnik.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 507 posts

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#391

Post by btilly »

tokyodude wrote: post #333
btilly wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did it by ironic accident. Bill Gates wanted their browser to be the best, but also wanted it not good enough to replace desktop apps. However the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. The Outlook team was told to make a web version. They got the IE team to add XMLHttpRequest for their use, everyone implemented what they needed to, then went home and forgot about it. Then Google recognized what th…

Gmail was not even close the the first Ajax based email not by MS. Oddpost which later became Yahoo mail (Yahoo bought them to upgrade their mail) preceded Gmail by a few years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oddpost

That may be, but the original articles that I saw making AJAX the new hotness referred to gmail and Google maps.

Furthermore I remember gmail's keyboard shortcuts being a shock to a lot of people. Me included.

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#392

Post by RobertRoberts »

rifung wrote: post #295
tedivm wrote: post #3

I don't understand why the Chrome team is picking this hill to die on- their team (managers and developers) are all over twitter and reddit trying to explain the privacy violations away as if the people upset about this are just not understanding what's going on. I really expect this change to push a lot of people away from Chrome, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it started opening up more antitrust possibilit…

I work at Google; opinions are my own. > I don't understand why the Chrome team is picking this hill to die on- their team (managers and developers) are all over twitter and reddit trying to explain the privacy violations away as if the people upset about this are just not understanding what's going on. My impression is that this is the new norm at Google. It happens with everything, internal or external. The sad rea…

>...people externally often think Google is on some evil plan...

The real bad guys don't ever think they are evil. (consider Al Capone, hero of the people)

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#393

Post by Zarel »

eudora wrote: post #370
quickben wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use checkboxes?

Oh man, this always Madden's me when a company takes away some option in the name of simplifying for the majority of users. Put it on a screen called advanced options or something, even about:config, and let us decide! That is, if you're really not just manipulating your users.

I mean, this _is_ on the advanced options screen. It's in chrome://flags/#account-consistency

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#394

Post by btilly »

joshuamorton wrote: post #386
btilly wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look in the OP for the phrase "Mistaken synchronisation". You'll land at a section where he verified the steps by which a confused user could easily turn on synchronization without understanding that they had done so. Does this change your opinion?

Note that I explicitly mentioned this as the one consideration that was mildly convincing: >I think I've seen exactly one potentially compelling argument, which is that it may now be easier to accidentally enable syncing when you don't want to, since its a single click instead of entering a password. Personally, though, (and I want to highlight that this is just my opinion as a person) I don't think it's a regression…

And yet as a employee of Google the question that you should be concerned with is how this impacts you. Given that GDPR was explicitly intended to punish big American companies for violating the privacy of Europeans, you should read the GDPR carefully from the point of view of, "Would the people who wrote this intend for my employer to get hit by my behavior?"

For a cautionary note, consider carefully how Microsoft got away with losing antitrust lawsuit after antitrust lawsuit and laughing about the consequences...until the EU decided to raise the stakes on them. And then read https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/the-largest-fines-dished-out... to remind yourself how the EU thinks of Google.

Now I personally am opposed to the EU approach. (The upcoming copyright laws are particularly worrisome to me.) But at some point Google is going to need to leave the EU, or else to follow EU law. I don't believe that Google is willing to exit the EU. In which case you should really be worried about parts of Google that are putting the whole company at risk by violating EU law. No matter what you, personally, think of said EU laws.

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#395

Post by Zarel »

tedivm wrote: post #344
ewjordan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah...and that thread says that the change is basically nothing, just a UI indicator: > Q: I don’t get, though — if you’re signed in to the browser but sync is off, then what does it mean to be signed in to the browser? What does it do besides sync? > A: Not much, you can think of it like a Gmail login state indicator. If that's fully the case, then there's nothing to see here and people are freaking out over nothin…

It's not the case though. Google's privacy policy has two different "modes" for Chrome, one for being logged in and one for being logged out. By tricking people into logging in without their consent they are also tricking people into allowing that extra data to be collected. Their current argument is that they aren't actually collecting that data- just getting permission to- but that's kind of sketchy and still leave…

You're misreading the privacy policy. Google's privacy policy has two modes, one for sync on, and one for sync off. Logging into Chrome does not turn sync on, so you can be logged into Chrome and still covered by the "basic" privacy policy.

They aren't actually collecting that data because you haven't turned sync on.

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#396

Post by rhlala »

Anyway, is it relevant to not be logged in? You make it a bit harder for them, but it is easy to know who you are evn if you dont log in,

- screen resolution,

- browser add-ons installed,

- ip localization

- etc

It is called digital print i belive.

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#397

Post by untog »

tedivm wrote: post #3

I don't understand why the Chrome team is picking this hill to die on- their team (managers and developers) are all over twitter and reddit trying to explain the privacy violations away as if the people upset about this are just not understanding what's going on. I really expect this change to push a lot of people away from Chrome, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it started opening up more antitrust possibilit…

> I really expect this change to push a lot of people away from Chrome

Agree with you up until this point. The vast, vast majority of people won't even notice this has happened, or really care much.

Anecdotal of course, but I haven't heard a single complaint among my non-tech friends, and I'm usually the first person they talk to about this stuff (because I'm "in tech"). I also believe Google when they say this change results in a lot less confusion from users (and just so happens to be a strategic benefit for Google, too...)

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#398

Post by reitanqild »

Tracist wrote: post #337
quickben wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use checkboxes?

When you have a checkbox for every possible customisation option, you end up with a commercial airliner cockpit - hundreds of flashing lights and switches, that you need a comprehensive manual and years of experience to properly operate.

Spoken like a true modern ux designer ;-)

I won't say you cannot make toys but I'd be happy if ux designers everywhere could take a break and stop dumbing down working applications, thanks.

PS: they don't need to be flashing.

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#399

Post by [deleted] »

manigandham wrote: post #329
pritambaral wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this doesn't actually "prevent surprises in a shared device scenario" for the web, in general; it does for Google sites and services only. Logging in to Facebook or Amazon or my personal blog does not show up as a browser indicator, nor does logging out of the browser also log one out of Facebook or Amazon or my personal blog. This makes Chrome less of a browser and more of gateway to Google services that happ…

Yes, but as I said, most people probably do consider it a single gateway to all of their Google services, browser included. The big difference is that your Chrome account is your Google account, unlike any of the other sites you mention.

[deleted]

Re: Am I logged in or not? GDPR case study on the example of Chrome browser change

#400

Post by reitanqild »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #362
adrianrocamora wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FF with Multi Account Containers is heaven

FF itself since Quantum has been heaven for me personally. I've always used FF and Chrome, flipping back and forth as Chrome filled in where FF had issues and vice versa, but after a week or 2 on Quantum I just didn't need Chrome anymore and uninstalled it. Haven't regretted it once.

If you have to deal withtheir web apps like me, please also report performance problems loud and clear when they affect non-Chrome browsers.
Post reply on HN