News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder • Hacker News Board

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#41

Post by empath75 » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 12:36 PM UTC

bionoid wrote: post #34

psandersen wrote: post #27

I'd like to see a serious investigation and discussion around the recommendation engines used to rank content added here. Something is seriously wrong with youtube's algorithm, whether in the technical implementation or how it deals with spam/unintended consequences. Kids watching cartoons get recommended messed up stuff (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/65rkxv/what_i... ), watch a single Jordan Pe…

> I'd like to see a serious investigation and discussion around the recommendation engines [...] Something is seriously wrong with youtube's algorithm I had a pretty surreal experience last year. My youtube use is almost exclusively for learning; coding, maths, astronomy, science, and so on. Recommendations were never great for me, usually recommending videos I've already watched. At some point I inadvertently clicke…

I like to watch penn and teller fool us videos and if I click on one, my entire feed is full of magicians for weeks. They need to adjust how quickly they read signals.

That said, I also watch numberphile and do get a bunch of like math suggestions like mathologer and v sauce.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#42

Post by sonnyblarney » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

schoen wrote: post #22

p2t2p wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if anybody could give me a link to read on canned food issues. I come from Russia and there were non in USSR and Russia after USSR dissolved, what were the issues in the US?

You could look at it from at least two angles: canned food became associated with lower economic classes, and people became concerned that much of the nutritional value of canned foods was lost when they were preserved. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/really-the-claim-f... Today people who see themselves as well-off and/or health-conscious may pride themselves on eating fresh (as well as local and in-season…

No. Fresh produce is basically always cheaper than processed foods, and there are no places on the continent that lack access to 'agriculture'. Hawaii, way up in Northern Canada - maybe.

I buy a big bad of produce from the local market and it comes to like $12. A bag of arbitrary goods from the processed isles would be 5 times that.

The only dietary staple that's expensive is meat.

My grandparents grew up on farms, they were poor, they never saw or ate a 'TV dinner' why on earth would they?

TV dinners and canned foods are not about economic poverty.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#43

Post by sonnyblarney » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:24 PM UTC

I don't think content will be so much a problem, it will be readership. That said, nice effort.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#44

Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #42

schoen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could look at it from at least two angles: canned food became associated with lower economic classes, and people became concerned that much of the nutritional value of canned foods was lost when they were preserved. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/really-the-claim-f... Today people who see themselves as well-off and/or health-conscious may pride themselves on eating fresh (as well as local and in-season…

No. Fresh produce is basically always cheaper than processed foods, and there are no places on the continent that lack access to 'agriculture'. Hawaii, way up in Northern Canada - maybe. I buy a big bad of produce from the local market and it comes to like $12. A bag of arbitrary goods from the processed isles would be 5 times that. The only dietary staple that's expensive is meat. My grandparents grew up on farms, t…

I'm a big fan of buying and processing my own vegetables too. Not a whole lot of work in peeling a carrot or dismembering my own broccoli.

But its only fair to note, organic vegetables can be way more expensive than processed regular (commercially grown and processed) vegetables. That's pretty much the definition of commercial - where production cost is the driving factor.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#45

Post by Nasrudith » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:40 PM UTC

akudha wrote: post #33

chrisweekly wrote: post #3

This looks awesome. >"The site will explore three broad investigative categories: how profiling software discriminates against the poor and other vulnerable groups; internet health and infections like bots, scams and misinformation; and the awesome power of the tech companies. The Markup will release all its stories under a creative commons license so other organizations can republish them, as ProPublica does." Also,…

This is awesome and looking forward to it! The one thing that is bugging me is - yet another project that depends on the generosity of a rich person, a project that is so important and vital.

Well the thing is that somebody has to pay for it and there are pros and cons to every approach.

1. Reader Funded: Accountable directly to user contributions. Common with activists. Good for not being the but needs to raise interest. Sensationalizing is a temptation. Has an echochamber risk as passion sustains it even at the cost of rationality. The viewers must both care enough to support. See cases like Greenpeace trying to ban chlorine as the element of death. 2. Patron supplied: stable funding from a wealthy base. No need to try to sensationalize or generate a profit but control rests with them. 3. Government funded: similar to 2 but vulnerable to politics usually unless held as sacrosanct. 4. Ad funded: A hybrid system of 1 and 2 essentially. A broader base of supporters and only need to care enough to read to support but advertisers have influence. 5. Endowment based - a seed fund internally accountable only. Which means either nothing to keep itself in check or somebody able to exert influence.

There are no easy answers and all exist.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#46

Post by TheCoelacanth » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #42

schoen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could look at it from at least two angles: canned food became associated with lower economic classes, and people became concerned that much of the nutritional value of canned foods was lost when they were preserved. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/really-the-claim-f... Today people who see themselves as well-off and/or health-conscious may pride themselves on eating fresh (as well as local and in-season…

No. Fresh produce is basically always cheaper than processed foods, and there are no places on the continent that lack access to 'agriculture'. Hawaii, way up in Northern Canada - maybe. I buy a big bad of produce from the local market and it comes to like $12. A bag of arbitrary goods from the processed isles would be 5 times that. The only dietary staple that's expensive is meat. My grandparents grew up on farms, t…

People who run their own farms are usually not living in poverty. Poor: yes, poverty: no.

Eating well for really cheap takes some upfront resources that really impoverished people wouldn't have, like kitchen space, cooking equipment, a lot of freezer or shelf space, equipment for freezing or canning your own food, etc.

Those things are all fairly cheap, so poor people living on a farm can afford them since it will save them a lot of money in the long run, but truly impoverished people can't afford that even if it will save them money.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#47

Post by Nasrudith » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

slededit wrote: post #30

> The site will explore three broad investigative categories: how profiling software discriminates against the poor and other vulnerable groups; internet health and infections like bots, scams and misinformation; and the awesome power of the tech companies. Shouldn't they prove "if" software discriminates before figuring out "how"? It seems like they already have a conclusion in mind which rarely produces quality res…

True not all software is however there are some cases which are clearly bias laundering like sentencing algorithms that factor in garden size (UK sense). It is pretty clearly a spurious correlation and even if it was true would suggest requiring paroles be forced to live in areas with larger gardens as a rehabilitative measure - not to give a slap on the wrist to the rural and wealthy.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#48

Post by sonnyblarney » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #46

sonnyblarney wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Fresh produce is basically always cheaper than processed foods, and there are no places on the continent that lack access to 'agriculture'. Hawaii, way up in Northern Canada - maybe. I buy a big bad of produce from the local market and it comes to like $12. A bag of arbitrary goods from the processed isles would be 5 times that. The only dietary staple that's expensive is meat. My grandparents grew up on farms, t…

People who run their own farms are usually not living in poverty. Poor: yes, poverty: no. Eating well for really cheap takes some upfront resources that really impoverished people wouldn't have, like kitchen space, cooking equipment, a lot of freezer or shelf space, equipment for freezing or canning your own food, etc. Those things are all fairly cheap, so poor people living on a farm can afford them since it will sa…

No.

Produce is cheaper than processed food universally.

100% of domiciles in the United States have refrigerators, cooking spaces, and 'shelf space'. (Did you really just use 'shelf space' as an argument?)

The facts are clear - the argument of 'cost of eating well' doesn't make a whole lot of sense because with a marginal bit of thought, it's entirely possible to eat well and save money.

If you're talking 'homeless' - well that's another thing entirely.

I think there may be some issues with 'time' - with two working parents not normative, and possibly kids, people have less time.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#49

Post by Nasrudith » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #42

schoen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could look at it from at least two angles: canned food became associated with lower economic classes, and people became concerned that much of the nutritional value of canned foods was lost when they were preserved. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/really-the-claim-f... Today people who see themselves as well-off and/or health-conscious may pride themselves on eating fresh (as well as local and in-season…

No. Fresh produce is basically always cheaper than processed foods, and there are no places on the continent that lack access to 'agriculture'. Hawaii, way up in Northern Canada - maybe. I buy a big bad of produce from the local market and it comes to like $12. A bag of arbitrary goods from the processed isles would be 5 times that. The only dietary staple that's expensive is meat. My grandparents grew up on farms, t…

I don't see how that makes economic sense. Preserved food should wind up cheaper than the highly perishable even with additional input costs barring truly massive differences - the surplus isn't lost and can build up and even if it the sale price minus processing costs is less per item something is more than nothing.

As for your grandparents they were poor farmers so of course labor and seeds were cheap for them - they already had the prerequisites by definition.

Re: News Site to Investigate Big Tech, Helped by Craigslist Founder

#50

Post by chris_mc » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #35

slededit wrote: post #30

> The site will explore three broad investigative categories: how profiling software discriminates against the poor and other vulnerable groups; internet health and infections like bots, scams and misinformation; and the awesome power of the tech companies. Shouldn't they prove "if" software discriminates before figuring out "how"? It seems like they already have a conclusion in mind which rarely produces quality res…

I'm not sure why you've been downvoted for this. Although I'm inclined to agree with their starting position it's hard to deny that quality investigative journalism shouldn't be about proving a preexisting hypothesis.

If you read the article, they already proved that Facebook was selling illegal housing ads that were biased racially and they proved that a common parole software was also biased racially. I think it stands to reason there are plenty of other inadvertent, or otherwise, issues out there.