Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linux – The beginning of the end?

dedoimedo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 201 posts

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#71

Post by amaccuish »

CryptoRetired wrote: post #21
rbanffy wrote: post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

If you don’t understand, maybe Consider the objections, instead of ( unintentionally) writing as if the people who object are presumed abusive or bigoted. That wasn’t your intention because you meant to just say you have no problem accepting criticism. But that’s the implication. And the idea of guilty until proven innocent, but you can’t defend yourself because you will never hear the accusation and your attacker ca…

And how does not having a CoC stop that? Like, if someone takes a dislike to someone, and they have sufficient power, they can remove them anyway.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#72

Post by s9w »

Certhas wrote: post #10
lanevorockz wrote: post #2

I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until backdoors are introduced on Linux. Activists that joined the community for money will have full control and the ability of banning any criticism. We really need Linus back.

Because behaving like a decent human being is that hard, isn't it? If a code of conduct hurts your feelings that much maybe you're just not cut out for collaborative work. I really wonder where the great fear that CoCs will be abused to shut down disagreement comes from. I am not a fan of policing language, but there just aren't many real examples of such abuse out there. Here is the actual list of examples from the…

These CoC's are weapons, disguised as a harmless decency. In the case of linux, it was yielded within a very timely manner:

https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/9hhnev/less...

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#73

Post by nalllar »

/r/linux has been full of arguments about this recently.

The moderation team claims that many of the people arguing against the CoC appear to be new to /r/linux.

> We have noticed a large influx of accounts this past week that have never commented or posted in /r/Linux before. We have also seen a large number of accounts being created just to comment on these posts. ~ /u/Kruug

From https://aa.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9i43t9/dont_worry_the...

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#74

Post by amaccuish »

CryptoRetired wrote: post #51
shrikant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I wonder if the people posting about not contributing any more to Linux will also stop their open source contributions to projects associated with all the organisations on this page: https://www.contributor-covenant.org/adopters

Yep. There’s a half dozen there I used to contribute to... and one I didn’t realize had adopted it. If I ever need to add a feature to one of them I’ll have to fork it. But I think that it needs a “no CoC” license. That list, by the way, is a list of projects run by people who bowed to pressure and didn’t really think it thru or believed the lies pushed by those pushing the CoC. I know this first hand for the project…

> That list, by the way, is a list of projects run by people who bowed to pressure and didn’t really think it thru or believed the lies pushed by those pushing the CoC.

Are you implying that those who support a CoC are lying or somehow not "strong" enough to oppose it? You've stated elsewhere [0] your objection that people who oppose a CoC are implied to be bigoted. And yet here you are assuming that those who have no problem with a CoC are weak and have bowed to pressure or believing some lie. It works both ways my friend.

[0] > If you don’t understand, maybe Consider the objections, instead of ( unintentionally) writing as if the people who object are presumed abusive or bigoted.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#75

Post by TotempaaltJ »

tomlock wrote: post #49
mishurov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I want to continue to use the based and red-pilled Linux instead of the SJW version.

Did you know the term "red-pilled" comes from a movie written by two trans women? Really makes you think.

> Really makes you think.

Oh yea? What about?

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#76

Post by quantummkv »

> You cannot expect people from Finland, Spain, Turkey, Namibia, or Japan to behave the same way, talk the same way, express themselves the same way. You cannot expect them to just normalize to a cookie-cutter template and move on. That does not work. And yet, that's the expectation, because that's how the US-centric IT world is designed.

This. Right here. The fanatics in the OSS world (and Tech at large) seem to have forgotten that Silicon Valley != The World. This is not 1984 with a standardized society defined by the Big Brother in Menlo Park.

You will find that most of these "cultural/offensive" flame wars in tech are fought because someone forgot to step out of the silicon valley bubble they reside in. Take what happened with Redis. The Master/Slave terminology does not raise much eyebrows outside of USA simply because these parts of the world did not have large scale slavery of black people. And yet some SV people expect to everyone to know American history and culture. They seem to live in a dream world where only the American culture exists and then get violent when the reality hits them.

And before someone comes with a respect and work with my culture shtick, please remember that it is a two way street. We are not under any obligation to respect only your culture and mannerisms. You also have a responsibility to understand other cultures and respect them and understand their mannerisms and way of thinking.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#78

Post by pjc50 »

CryptoRetired wrote: post #64
pjc50 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see the competing claims: - the kernel community is comprised entirely of people who will never be abusive, so it doesn't need a code of conduct - the project is surrounded by people who are so dangerous that they will abuse any kind of process, even a code of conduct

1. The CoC normalizes abuse. 2. If someone is abusive without a CoC thryvcan ve easily removed. 3. They aren’t abusing the code of conduct when they use it to attack people, that’s what itcwas designed for. It was designed by a person with an axe to grind who makes no secret of their agenda.

> The CoC normalizes abuse.

Please explain how an anti-abuse system normalises abuse?

> If someone is abusive without a CoC thryvcan ve easily removed.

It has long been argued that Linus was abusive, and he wasn't removed at all let alone "easily".

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#79

Post by CryptoRetired »

pjc50 wrote: post #78
CryptoRetired wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The CoC normalizes abuse. 2. If someone is abusive without a CoC thryvcan ve easily removed. 3. They aren’t abusing the code of conduct when they use it to attack people, that’s what itcwas designed for. It was designed by a person with an axe to grind who makes no secret of their agenda.

> The CoC normalizes abuse. Please explain how an anti-abuse system normalises abuse? > If someone is abusive without a CoC thryvcan ve easily removed. It has long been argued that Linus was abusive, and he wasn't removed at all let alone "easily".

Please read this comment section where I have explained it multiple times.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#80

Post by shrikant »

CryptoRetired wrote: post #51
shrikant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I wonder if the people posting about not contributing any more to Linux will also stop their open source contributions to projects associated with all the organisations on this page: https://www.contributor-covenant.org/adopters

Yep. There’s a half dozen there I used to contribute to... and one I didn’t realize had adopted it. If I ever need to add a feature to one of them I’ll have to fork it. But I think that it needs a “no CoC” license. That list, by the way, is a list of projects run by people who bowed to pressure and didn’t really think it thru or believed the lies pushed by those pushing the CoC. I know this first hand for the project…

Any open source project that gains enough traction to require a proper governance model has adopted a code of conduct. (Although I'd be interested in seeing if there are any notable counter-examples).

Whether or not it is based on the Contributor Covenant is irrelevant -- the language is roughly the same broad brush strokes with which you appear to have ideological differences. Do you take issue with the "Enforcement" section?

I suppose this means you (and anyone else that has a problem with COCs, I guess) will only contribute to small-to-medium open source projects where the maintainer does it as a hobby?

Post reply on HN