Linux – The beginning of the end? • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#31

Post by arkh » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

The problem is multiple vague parts which taken together can be a bad thing.

>Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:

>Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting

Following which country professional setting? The US?

>Maintainers have the right and responsibility to [...] ban temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful.

Ok, not too abusable.

>This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces when an individual is representing the project or its community.

Ok.

>Representation of a project may be further defined and clarified by project maintainers.

And that's from where abuse will be coming. Using your blog not associated with Linux but with your name to tell things some "maintainers" don't like? Go work on another project. Because for this case your name is enough to check the "representation of a project" clause.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#32

Post by poilcn » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

CryptoRetired wrote: post #15

I am a gay man[0] who has contributed to a number of open source projects significantly. However I stopped when they implemented “Code of Conducts” that deny basic rights such as innocent until proven guilty and the right to face your accuser. (The popular one keeps accusers anonymous, thus the victim has no chance to defend themselves.) The truth is a maintainer can eject someone without a CoC. The purpose of CoC, a…

Well, it happened before. No CoC was needed. Reiser4.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#33

Post by Guthur » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

scirocco wrote: post #13

rbanffy wrote: post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

Agree. Open Source values will still remain - working in a transparent, open (not always nice) way. More with CoC, harassing people will not be tolerated

Harassing is a continued assault. Calling some one stupid might be insulting but it is not harassment

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#34

Post by arkh » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

ealhad wrote: post #22

rbanffy wrote: post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

I want to add that, even though (as stated in the article) polite language doesn't imply good intentions, it's a good start nevertheless.

Bless your heart.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#35

Post by ATsch » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

I find the doom-and-gloom over the CoC change absolutely silly. Plenty of projects have a CoC and none of them have just died a fiery death because there were rules against treating people badly. As other people pointed out, there's a big difference between putting everything into 15 layers of business speak and just not insulting people. Linus is, to me, obviously advocating the latter.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#36

Post by patrickg_zill » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:49 AM UTC

Linux has survived and thrived, garnering support from many big companies without having to have a coc before.

That an admittedly mediocre tech-wise, and really quite odd person who publicly hates meritocracy will now presume to sit in judgment of others who have skills far greater than his, grates.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#37

Post by kingofhdds » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

Did you really read the text to the end? "Verbal assault" doesn't have a universal meaning, politeness is VERY culture-dependent, and in modern IT everybody is forced to accept US corporate standard which I'm not even sure is universal for the majority of Americans, and often perceived as grossly insincere, and restrictive to the point it's practically abusive by people raised in other cultures.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#38

Post by mishurov » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

lanevorockz wrote: post #2

I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until backdoors are introduced on Linux. Activists that joined the community for money will have full control and the ability of banning any criticism. We really need Linus back.

This. I want to continue to use the based and red-pilled Linux instead of the SJW version.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#39

Post by shrikant » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

Yeah, I wonder if the people posting about not contributing any more to Linux will also stop their open source contributions to projects associated with all the organisations on this page: https://www.contributor-covenant.org/adopters

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#40

Post by DanBC » Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

ATsch wrote: post #35

I find the doom-and-gloom over the CoC change absolutely silly. Plenty of projects have a CoC and none of them have just died a fiery death because there were rules against treating people badly. As other people pointed out, there's a big difference between putting everything into 15 layers of business speak and just not insulting people. Linus is, to me, obviously advocating the latter.

Yes. It's baffling to me that people can't see the difference between "this doesn't work" and "this doesn't work you stupid cunt", or can't see how the latter is corrosive.