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Linux – The beginning of the end?

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Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#21
post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

If you don’t understand, maybe Consider the objections, instead of ( unintentionally) writing as if the people who object are presumed abusive or bigoted.

That wasn’t your intention because you meant to just say you have no problem accepting criticism. But that’s the implication.

And the idea of guilty until proven innocent, but you can’t defend yourself because you will never hear the accusation and your attacker can remain anonymous while you are drummed out of a job based on lies without a chance to defend yourself should be offensive to all reasonable people.

That’s what these “CoCs” do and that’s how they are used.

Look at drupal- the guy attacked for being kinky (really he was attacked because someone didn’t like him and the CoC gave them power to vindictively gee back at him.). Look at the numerous attacks the author of the CoC has perpetrated. Look at the listing of the head of Mozilla for the “crime” of not being a Marxist.

This is an age where people are being reported to HR for the “hate crime” of bringing Chik-Fil-a in for lunch!

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#22
post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

I want to add that, even though (as stated in the article) polite language doesn't imply good intentions, it's a good start nevertheless.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#23
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust, the programming language project, is one of the most inclusive projects there is, and they have a strong CoC. They seem to be doing fine. I don't think this is going to kill Linux. As for Linus's vacation/break/whatever, it's good that they're practicing giving the reins away. It is bound to happen at some future anyway. It's equally good that they're practicing behaving well, because it's quite possible that t…

> is one of the most inclusive projects there is There is absolutely no proof a CoC drives "inclusiveness", whatever it means, however there are multiple examples where codes of conducts were used to exclude contributors because they said something someone did not like in a setting completely unrelated to the project community. https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/drupal-larry-garfield-gor.htm... CoC are political tools to…

If you read the official Drupal statement it comes across very differently: https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-association-a...

There was a dispute which was being handled privately, and in consultation with Larry, but he decided to attack the project in public over it.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#24

I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until backdoors are introduced on Linux. Activists that joined the community for money will have full control and the ability of banning any criticism. We really need Linus back.

> the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it

It looks like the only plausible way to undo the addition of the CoC is if enough contributors rescind the license to use their contribution. Given that the kernel is licensed under GPL v2, this seems to be a real possibility (GPL v3 prevents this scenario).

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#25
I get the impression (or maybe this is the point and I'm just dense) that the article is saying that Linus's aggressiveness matched corporate aggressiveness head-to-head, and that this meant Linux didn't get engulfed by corporate agenda to the extent that it lost its core integrity and values.

I also think I'm reading the notion that perhaps Linus' apology and temporary stepping-down to reflect introduces hesitancy about the authority/legitimacy/validity of his position and views.

Maybe so. I don't think this will have a negative impact on Linux itself though. For all the chaos it's wrought, the GPLv2 kind of saves things somewhat here; even if Linus steps down, we'll be fine: the whole world is Linux-specific, and while Linux is just a syscall interface it's also a rather important thing that initializes and maintains the state of your hardware and peripherals for you, and this rather important thing happens to be under this license that doesn't let you proprietary-ify it in certain ways.

This is awesome.

Until someone makes a perfectly Linux-compatible kernel with a different license model.

The idea makes sense. Notwithstanding whatever ideas you might associate with Lennart Poettering, I remember him saying (although I can't find it right now...) that Linux is pretty much the future and that nothing else (translation: BSD) really matters. I think this was regarding GNOME and/or systemd BSD support. Some may think FreeBSD (at least) might want to have a word with Lennart, but still...

So far Microsoft have a partially complete UNIX^HLinux reimplementation. Honestly quite an amazing 360° there... they currently seem to be trying to lure "modern developers" to Azure. I can't say I quite get the rationale there, but okay, cool. (Not dissing it, I genuinely don't "get" it.)

FreeBSD's quiet use in things like the PlayStation 4 is similar to MINIX's use in Intel CPUs: the fact that it's a UNIX is a throwaway implementation detail. Linux is completely different - compatibility encapsulates everything from the syscall table to the location of specific files, to the existence of /proc, /sys and similar, to the fact that graphics and windowing are (for now...) X11 based, to the fact that the shell works the way it does (read: that the shell uses the GNU coreutils).

Google decided to avoid the UNIX thing altogether, instead opting to create their own new thing. This makes sense: Google have server-side, client-side, and everything in between to think about, and it's going to simplify a lot of subsystems, infrastructure, tooling, design, architecture, etc, if they can hand the same kernel to wearable device OEMs, phone/tablet OEMs, server OEMs, IoT device OEMs, "nonexistent"/internal network equipment OEMs, consumer network device OEMs; etc etc. This is a stretch and perhaps I'm looking ahead more ambitiously than Google is here, but I'd be _very_ surprised if this concept hasn't been floated. It's too attractive and makes too much sense.

I've been scared about Linux's future for a long time. It feels... too successful, like things are going suspiciously well. I mean, right now I'm typing this on a machine running an OS I didn't have to pay anybody for, and if something breaks and makes me mad enough to want to do something about it, there's more things I can take apart and things I can open and shut that will fit in my attention span. And here's the bit that I'm suspicious about: that's the status quo, what we've come to expect. We have it ridiculously easy!

I guess the reason I'm suspicious is because, I'm afraid the nice status quo changing isn't a matter of if but when, and when things fall apart, I don't want to be taken by surprise.

It would be utterly foolish for me to try to envisage how this would happen; the bazaar is WAY too big, sociopolitically speaking, for me to mentally model it. Nope. But I feel (hand-wavily) that something's gotta give, eventually. Not because of some concept of "where on earth is the fuel for all of this free stuff coming from, and when will it run out" but more in terms of the integrity of the fabric holding everything together, and how vulnerable that is to change.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#26
post #14

I just want to reiterate what glandium wrote in a comment further down: "He didn't step down. He's taking a break. It's not the first time he takes a break either. Let's not be too alarmist."

Also I fear this situation is at a loss loss interpretation. If Linus doesn't take time off he's a sociopath, if he does, linux is dead...

I do agree that it's somehow worrisome, but I tend to think that open discussion, and slowing down is a sign of health rather than the opposite. Time will tell.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#27
post #9

I really, genuinely, don't understand why such a bland code of conduct would be a turn off to anyone. I may not be easy to be around, but I try not to be abrasive while, at the same time, making clear why I think something is the way I think. If you think someone is wrong very often, I believe saying why the person is wrong on every occasion will provide them with actionable information much better than calling them…

Agree. Open Source values will still remain - working in a transparent, open (not always nice) way. More with CoC, harassing people will not be tolerated

The entire point of the CoC is it creates a process whereby people not involved in the project can harass members of the project while remaining anonymous.

Notice the people making a stink about Linus do it by taking out of context, lying about what he said and have managed to get people to think he should step down.(and are putting in place a “code” that lets them do it even though he’s the kindest non-bigoted person you could think of.)

It’s completely political and it’s discriminatory.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#28

I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until backdoors are introduced on Linux. Activists that joined the community for money will have full control and the ability of banning any criticism. We really need Linus back.

> the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it.

Just to balance that statement out: any projects with discourse sounding like the LKML of the past I'm completely uninterested in helping. I think I represent a larger group of developers than those scared off by a CoC.

Re: Linux – The beginning of the end?

#30

I am a Linux developer and contributor for a few decades and the code of conduct simply killed any interest in contributing to it. It won't take long until backdoors are introduced on Linux. Activists that joined the community for money will have full control and the ability of banning any criticism. We really need Linus back.

I hope Linus manages to not see what sort of an absurd shitstorm happened during his absence.
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