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“Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

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Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#31

Post by wila »

carboy wrote: post #22

Cats are decimating bird populations, we don’t need more options for cats, we need less cats.

The problem is not so much these shelter cats which are hunting vermin. The real issue is normal domestic cats where the owner does not care or belief that their fur child is a supreme bird killer. Even when well fed.

Have one of them purring at my legs. He loves walking outside and catching birds, mice, etc.. but he will have to play inside instead. He gets out, but not often alone.

I understand not everybody can take care of their cat like that, but it would help if people kept their cat in when there's young birds outside.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#32

Post by ianai »

cm2012 wrote: post #26
jrace wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spirit behind the phrase "no bad dogs, just bad dog owners" fits very well with your example. Your dog is not bad, and its owner (you) are also not bad. Now, if you took your dog, who you know to have behavior issues to a home and locked him in with some kids...then you are now the bad owner. You are smart and caring enough (thank you!!) to recognize and properly handle your dog. Your dog is not bad, he is just a…

Okay, replace bad with inherently badly behaved then. The worst thing is that many people are fucking awful to other people who return a dog to a shelter when it doesn't work out.

Are they? I’ve not heard of that stigma, but I can believe it. Might just be where I’ve talked most about dogs though.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#33

Post by aaron695 »

I don't get it.

I'm about to eat the equivalent of a cat for lunch (Ok, probably a 1/3 of a cat). Just kill them and use a breed that's nice to humans and kills mice.

Why would you want a shitty cat in your life? They are shitty as it is. Pretty sure the peer review articles conclusively show dogs increase happiness better.

I also doubt they are more efficient than poisons and traps.

And of course they massacre hundreds of native animals, yes human urban environments are not natural.

But still seeing the occasional native lizards, mammals and birds gives me much more pleasure than your shitty cat in my yard which I can't even pat, at least with a dog I get my endorphin rush when I pat it.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#34

Post by tdb7893 »

reaperducer wrote: post #27
tdb7893 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study for the amount of birds they eat made a lot of assumptions so there's doubt on whether it's actually accurate or not. I do agree on the spay / neuter, though. Also it's news because these are cats shelters generally kill

The study for the amount of birds they eat made a lot of assumptions so there's doubt on whether it's actually accurate or not. Any link to reputable/scientific doubts on this? All my Google Fu churns up in reiterations of the popular narrative.

No, my wife studies dogs (but wants to study cats) and her friends were talking about how that paper was a big impediment to getting better policies regarding feral cats so sadly I don't have the references in front of me.

Edit: if I remember a large part of the problem they had with it is that it's very very hard to estimate the number of feral cats and also how many birds they eat in a scientifically accurate way.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#35

Post by jfoutz »

Animats wrote: post #5

Well, yes. They're predators. That's what cats are for. When I kept a horse at the Stanford barn, we always had a few barn cats. The cat people tended to overfeed them, so they wouldn't hunt much. Arrangements were made with the people who catch feral cats at Stanford to exchange the fat cats for some lean, aggressive ones they couldn't place in homes. Worked out fine. Soon, they'd cleared the barn, and started hunti…

You likely have much more experience than me.

I grew up in the sticks. We had cats, but not specifically for keeping mice out of a barn. They were pets.

The character of the cat seems to be the key thing. One cat would spend all day hunting. She was a killing machine. She had no need for food, just really liked killing things. Also, a pretty sweet cat, unless you were carrying milk. Then she'd bite your ankle.

Perhaps she was just an outlier. But, uh, if you believe in the 10x programmer, trust me. There are also 10x hunter cats.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#36

Post by ggm »

I think its interesting we have acceptance of this basic hunting behaviour, and belief it works, and we have simultaneously denial that cats cause an overwhelming majority of bird deaths in economies where cats are only an introduced species. By denial I mean both the wider 'we're in denial about this' and the specific 'oh... not my cat' response.

Pet cats, feral cats, both. Mainly now, feral cats because we (Australia) have a huge self-sustaining population of them. The numbers are calculated into the millions of surplus bird and lizard and small marsupial/mouse deaths per year (native mice btw, not european mice or rats).

I like cats. I was a cat owner. I grew up with cats. Cats are amazing. They also are wrecking fragile ecologies.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#37

Post by bayesian_horse »

durandal1 wrote: post #14
bayesian_horse wrote: post #10

Behavior problems in dogs are all about training. Behavior problems in cats are mostly about environment, and virtually never about training. A cat really is a mirror of its environment. Most problems arise from pent up energy, group dynamics, clueless Humans, bad toilet placement (yes cat toilet makes the cat happy, as a German saying goes). Lots of space, hunting activity, ability to choose contact at will and a we…

As someone who has dedicated years of behavior modification training a rescue dog with genetic fear aggression (actual clinical diagnosis), I wish we'd get away from the "there's no bad dog, only bad dog owners" dogma. I'd agree with you that the majority of behavioral problems with dogs can be removed or mitigated with training. However, dogs as with all other species have their temperament spread a long a distribut…

I call BS on that "diagnosis" (and I'm a Veterinarian btw). That being said, there is such a thing as a dog whose behavioral problems are insurmountable. I just don't want to ascribe it to genetics or anything else specific in any individual dog.

If training doesn't seem to work, the only option is medication. Especially if fear is supposed to be a factor. I don't know what you tried and I don't want to judge because I believe every owner loves their animals, no matter what.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#38

Post by bayesian_horse »

nailer wrote: post #19
bayesian_horse wrote: post #10

Behavior problems in dogs are all about training. Behavior problems in cats are mostly about environment, and virtually never about training. A cat really is a mirror of its environment. Most problems arise from pent up energy, group dynamics, clueless Humans, bad toilet placement (yes cat toilet makes the cat happy, as a German saying goes). Lots of space, hunting activity, ability to choose contact at will and a we…

A dog's parents, grandparents, and all ancestors for the last n hundred years may have been selected for their ability to grab something and shake it until it's neck breaks. This isn't the fault of the dog, but also not always fixable by training.

My point is that behavior problems in dogs are addressed through training (successfully), and problems with cats are most successfully addressed through modification of the environment. Both can benefit from medication, and cats do respond to training.

"My cat from hell" is an eye opener in that regard.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#39

Post by sandworm101 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #37
durandal1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has dedicated years of behavior modification training a rescue dog with genetic fear aggression (actual clinical diagnosis), I wish we'd get away from the "there's no bad dog, only bad dog owners" dogma. I'd agree with you that the majority of behavioral problems with dogs can be removed or mitigated with training. However, dogs as with all other species have their temperament spread a long a distribut…

I call BS on that "diagnosis" (and I'm a Veterinarian btw). That being said, there is such a thing as a dog whose behavioral problems are insurmountable. I just don't want to ascribe it to genetics or anything else specific in any individual dog. If training doesn't seem to work, the only option is medication. Especially if fear is supposed to be a factor. I don't know what you tried and I don't want to judge because…

>> I believe every owner loves their animals, no matter what.

I have run into a couple situations where this was not the case. We had an incident in Vancouver with a dogsled company (Whistler, post-olympics). Dogs owned for commercial purposes are often not "loved". Similarly, fighting dogs. There are many people in this world for whom dogs are not pets but a source of revenue, status, or fashion.

Re: “Unadoptable” shelter cats get second chance at life by chasing mice

#40

Post by peteretep »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #10

Behavior problems in dogs are all about training. Behavior problems in cats are mostly about environment, and virtually never about training. A cat really is a mirror of its environment. Most problems arise from pent up energy, group dynamics, clueless Humans, bad toilet placement (yes cat toilet makes the cat happy, as a German saying goes). Lots of space, hunting activity, ability to choose contact at will and a we…

> yes cat toilet makes the cat happy, as a German saying goes

wat?

What's the saying in German, and does it have an idiomatic meaning?

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